Fake IPA haze?

[Klickitat Jim]

I find IPAd to be best if they aren't yeasty. So dropping them clear first makes sense. I'm still not convinced that gel strips all hoppiness or else my gel fined helles wouldn't be too hoppy. It may remove some hop oil that is attached to yeast, but I don't really find hoppy yeast desirable anyway.

[cdburg]

I find IPAd to be best if they aren't yeasty. So dropping them clear first makes sense. I'm still not convinced that gel strips all hoppiness or else my gel fined helles wouldn't be too hoppy. It may remove some hop oil that is attached to yeast, but I don't really find hoppy yeast desirable anyway.

This has gotten totally off topic, so I apologize in advance.

Are you talking about hop flavor or hop bitterness in your Helles? I don't find that gelatin affects bitterness as much as hop flavor. If you use too much, it turns a flavorful IPA into a poor example of a pale ale - it strips most of the hop flavor and a bit of the bitterness. Using gelatin before the dry hop would be one way to help, but you'll still likely end up with a hop haze in your beer from the dry hop. If you're trying for a clear (or close to it) beer, you'd need to then fine again after the dry hop. That brings you back to the original problem.

[Klickitat Jim]

I find IPAd to be best if they aren't yeasty. So dropping them clear first makes sense. I'm still not convinced that gel strips all hoppiness or else my gel fined helles wouldn't be too hoppy. It may remove some hop oil that is attached to yeast, but I don't really find hoppy yeast desirable anyway.

This has gotten totally off topic, so I apologize in advance.

Are you talking about hop flavor or hop bitterness in your Helles? I don't find that gelatin affects bitterness as much as hop flavor. If you use too much, it turns a flavorful IPA into a poor example of a pale ale - it strips most of the hop flavor and a bit of the bitterness. Using gelatin before the dry hop would be one way to help, but you'll still likely end up with a hop haze in your beer from the dry hop. If you're trying for a clear (or close to it) beer, you'd need to then fine again after the dry hop. That brings you back to the original problem.

Bitterness is fine, the hop flavor is a bit strong. I know the fix by the way, but was just using it as an example to my argument that gel doesn't completelt strip all hoppiness. Im sure it removes some. But im still curious how some breweries are getting both clear and hoppy results. Sometimes I just wonder if hoppy enough is subjective and for some folks if its not extreme, its just not there at all. As a side point, for me, leaving too much yeast, to the point that the beer tastes yeasty, just isnt made up for by extra hoppiness. Meaning, I would rather lose X amount of hoppiness in exchange for not having that rank yeasty taste. There's a big difference between expected haze in a dry hopped beer and one that is intentionally left with a cloud of yeast.

[brewinhard]

I always cold crash my primary fermeter prior to adding my gelatin to the keg and then racking the beer on top to thoroughly mix it in. I have not observed any "stripping" of flavor and/or aroma doing it in this fashion. In fact my IPA's stay quite fresh for at least 6 wks or so.

[cdburg]

I always cold crash my primary fermeter prior to adding my gelatin to the keg and then racking the beer on top to thoroughly mix it in. I have not observed any "stripping" of flavor and/or aroma doing it in this fashion. In fact my IPA's stay quite fresh for at least 6 wks or so.

It might be a difference in process or something else, but I've done split batches with gelatin and without (the same batch and yeast), and I can tell you that the gelatin can certainly strip out things if I'm not careful. Having the control batch (no geltain) and the batch with the finings is interesting. It's helped show exactly me what the gelatin does. If I'm careful, and use the right amount of gelatin, it makes for a clearer beer with slight flavor and aroma loss. If I use too much gelatin, it's definitely stripped flavor and aroma. If I've used more than too much, it's stripped almost all of the flavor and aroma. Your experience may vary, but I've done enough experiments on my own system and process to know that I can certainly over fine a beer, and I don't like the results.

[Klickitat Jim]

Ive been using one 1/4 ounce envelope in a half cup water per 6 gallon batch and great results in clarity with no negative flavor or aroma effects.

[NateBrews]

I did some experiments with the amount of gelatin to use in a 5gal keg, starting with 1 packet (1/4 oz) and working down from there. I found that I had the same brilliant results down to about 1/3 of a packet (1/12 oz), and below that I had a little haze remaining depending on what the beer was that I was clearing. I would start with a small amount and you can always add more if things don't clear up enough. If you add too much to start with, you can't take it back later.

[cdburg]

It all depends on what you need to clear. For a heavily dry hopped IPA, I usually use 1/2 tsp to 1 tsp per 5 gallons. If I go much more than that, the beers suffer. I've seen some people recommend as much as 1 Tbsp per 5 gallons, but I find that to be the point where the beer begins to suffer, at least for beers with a big dry hop.