Berliner Weisse technique from Zymurgy

[EllisTX]

In the most recent issue of Zymurgy there is a recipe for BW that I'd like to try. This particular process is to Mash->Boil wort for 15 min->Pitch lacto starter->Hold for ~18-24 hrs @100->Boil for 90 minutes and pitch WLP029. This seems like an easy enough way to make my first BW.

Q1) How much forgiveness is there on the temperature to hold the Lacto at? I can't babysit it for that long probably. I'm guessing that if the temp gets a bit lower it won't hurt but the Lacto just won't grow as fast making this step last longer than 24hrs maybe.

Q2) Any issue with top cropping the yeast from this beer to use in other non Lacto beer? Will the 90 min boil kill all of the Lacto?

Thanks 's

[ACESFULL]

In the most recent issue of Zymurgy there is a recipe for BW that I'd like to try. This particular process is to Mash->Boil wort for 15 min->Pitch lacto starter->Hold for ~18-24 hrs @100->Boil for 90 minutes and pitch WLP029. This seems like an easy enough way to make my first BW.

Q1) How much forgiveness is there on the temperature to hold the Lacto at? I can't babysit it for that long probably. I'm guessing that if the temp gets a bit lower it won't hurt but the Lacto just won't grow as fast making this step last longer than 24hrs maybe.

Q2) Any issue with top cropping the yeast from this beer to use in other non Lacto beer? Will the 90 min boil kill all of the Lacto?

Thanks 's

1 - Lacto likes temps in the high 80's to 100F, you wont get quite the growth from the lacto if temp falls below 80F.

2 - Not real sure on top cropping this yeast, while the lacto will be killed in the boil I just dont know about top cropping this yeast.

[spiderwrangler]

2 - Not real sure on top cropping this yeast, while the lacto will be killed in the boil I just dont know about top cropping this yeast.

In terms of it being uncontaminated by Lacto, you will be fine, but not sure if the yeast will be affected in other ways. If I were to try this, I'd probably pull off top crop and run it through a starter and check for any off flavors/aromas etc before using it.

[EllisTX]

2 - Not real sure on top cropping this yeast, while the lacto will be killed in the boil I just dont know about top cropping this yeast.

In terms of it being uncontaminated by Lacto, you will be fine, but not sure if the yeast will be affected in other ways. If I were to try this, I'd probably pull off top crop and run it through a starter and check for any off flavors/aromas etc before using it.

I didn't think about the ph issues. I'll probably just make a larger starter and harvest from that for my next few batches. No need to risk DAMO'ing the yeast.

[brewinhard]

Besides not contaminating your plastic brewing equipment (siphon hose, racking cane, etc), I am not sure that would really make a sour enough beer. Only giving the lacto 24hrs then boiling it will not even make it sour enough at all. Even with a strong, large, healthy pitch of just lacto, it will take the beer several mos to reach its proper sourness, if not more. Lacto is a slow, weak, souring agent at least in what I have observed.

[EllisTX]

Besides not contaminating your plastic brewing equipment (siphon hose, racking cane, etc), I am not sure that would really make a sour enough beer. Only giving the lacto 24hrs then boiling it will not even make it sour enough at all. Even with a strong, large, healthy pitch of just lacto, it will take the beer several mos to reach its proper sourness, if not more. Lacto is a slow, weak, souring agent at least in what I have observed.

Sure Lacto is slow to work in beers at cellar temps. At optimal temp in a super sugary solution, it may work much faster. Look, I saw it in a magazine that I subscribed to off the internet. It has to be correct.

[Cody]

My experience, the same as many others, is that commercial pitches of lacto are very slow to produce perceptible sourness. My BW took a year to get tart at 70°F. That was doing a lacto starter, pitching lacto first, and holding at 100°F for three days. I know brewinhard and others have had quicker successes, but unless you're doing a sour mash, or using additional acid, I'm not sure this is the best way to get a good BW.

[EagleDude]

I have brewed 2 BW batches at this point. On the first, I boiled lightly for 45 mins (to help reduce chances for high DMS levels), pitched lacto for 1 day at 70 degrees then yeast to finish it out (3 weeks). This beer ended up having great clarity, light body, and the sourness of 1/4 strength unsweetened lemonade. Not quite sour enough. On the second, I was filling a 60 gallon neutral barrel, so I brewed concentrated worts and diluted down to the appropriate gravity with pre-boiled water. I heated the wort up to 180, but did not add hops or boil the wort. For the 50 gallons, I pitched 8 vials of lacto and held for 3 days before adding the yeast. After a month, this beer was super hazy (due to no boil? barrel?), similar light body, funky nose (barrel?), and had the sourness of full strength unsweetened lemonade.

Although different things going on with these two batches, this is how I plan to brew the next one. Boil for at least 15 minutes (help with clarity due to inclusion of a hot break in the process), pitch at least 2 vials of lacto into a 10 gallon batch, hold at 75-80+ degrees for ~2.5 days (validated by taste for sourness levels), pitch yeast. Drink in about 3 weeks.

It is not necessary to take months to a year of aging to get a hint of sourness. As long as you give a good lacto pitch and several days for it to work prior to adding the finishing yeast, you can get there in near normal fermentation times (2-3 weeks).