Brett Non Fermentation

[RLinNH]

Great thread!!! I have a Keg of Flanders Red that I just killed last night. I fermented it in primary with WLP001, then I added the Wyeast roselaire blend. I let it sit in the secondary for 2 1/2 years in my basement which goes anywhere from 65 degrees on up to 75. I realized my mistake about the roselaire only about a month ago as far as this blend being intended to do all the primary fermentation, but none the less, I feel that the beer turned out great. For my next Flanders red, I am going to go the WLP001 for primary again, but this time I want to add a White Labs Brett. Just don't know which one yet. Opppsie, sorry about the threadjack. This thread got me thinking about sours...

[Brandon]

I was making a distinction between brett flavor & a classic brett characteristic. Of course you're not going to get a beer that tastes like 001 by pitching only a brett culture. But you won't necessarily get that classic Belgian Pale Ale flavor either. You could get something completely fantastic, but it could be many different flavors. There's more different strains of brett than sachro, just not readily available to brewers.

That classic brett characteristic is defined by certain phenols, which are only produced when the brett is under stress. It doesn't have to be a lot of stress & that stress could come from a number of different things besides the presence of another yeast or alcohol (although since the vials seem to be intended as a secondary pitch, as you pointed out, that's what ends up happening). It could be fermentation temp, pH, cell count or a number of other things.

You can brew some nice brett beers without stressing the yeast at all, which is why I pointed out that it depends on where you want the beer to end up, but if you're after a classic brett characteristic in a Belgian Pale, it's not the best way to go after it. There was a great guest on the Session not too long ago talking a little further about it. Yacobsen I think.

I never implied you would get a beer that tastes like 001 by pitching Brett.

Still I disagree that the best/only way to get that "classic brett" characteristic is to stress the strain out...at least in my experiences.

[Brandon]

Great thread!!! I have a Keg of Flanders Red that I just killed last night. I fermented it in primary with WLP001, then I added the Wyeast roselaire blend. I let it sit in the secondary for 2 1/2 years in my basement which goes anywhere from 65 degrees on up to 75. I realized my mistake about the roselaire only about a month ago as far as this blend being intended to do all the primary fermentation, but none the less, I feel that the beer turned out great.

Why do think it was a mistake to do a clean fermentation then pitch the Roe? That process has made a lot of nice Flanders Reds. It's just a matter of at what gravity you pitch the Roe blend. Nothing wrong with what you did.

For my next Flanders red, I am going to go the WLP001 for primary again, but this time I want to add a White Labs Brett. Just don't know which one yet. Opppsie, sorry about the threadjack. This thread got me thinking about sours...

You will never make a Flanders Red with that plan. It would probably make a nice clean Brett Red, but it will never be a Flanders Red unless you add bacteria (Lacto/Pedio). Brettanomyces is not a bacteria, its a yeast...Brett doesnt sour beer.

[RLinNH]

Great thread!!! I have a Keg of Flanders Red that I just killed last night. I fermented it in primary with WLP001, then I added the Wyeast roselaire blend. I let it sit in the secondary for 2 1/2 years in my basement which goes anywhere from 65 degrees on up to 75. I realized my mistake about the roselaire only about a month ago as far as this blend being intended to do all the primary fermentation, but none the less, I feel that the beer turned out great.

Why do think it was a mistake to do a clean fermentation then pitch the Roe? That process has made a lot of nice Flanders Reds. It's just a matter of at what gravity you pitch the Roe blend. Nothing wrong with what you did.

For my next Flanders red, I am going to go the WLP001 for primary again, but this time I want to add a White Labs Brett. Just don't know which one yet. Opppsie, sorry about the threadjack. This thread got me thinking about sours...

You will never make a Flanders Red with that plan. It would probably make a nice clean Brett Red, but it will never be a Flanders Red unless you add bacteria (Lacto/Pedio). Brettanomyces is not a bacteria, its a yeast...Brett doesnt sour beer.

Then educate me Brandon. I have been of the opinion that Roelaire blend was a Yeast that is supposed to be used singularily in a fermentation. I am guessing that I am wrong? What would you do for a fermentation for a Flanders Brown?

[Brandon]

Then educate me Brandon. I have been of the opinion that Roelaire blend was a Yeast that is supposed to be used singularily in a fermentation. I am guessing that I am wrong? What would you do for a fermentation for a Flanders Brown?

You can use any yeast in any way that you like. What you did by doing a clean ferment with 001 and then pitching the Roe blend is exactly what Jamil has recommended in his book Brewing Classic Styles and in his Flanders Red "The Jamil Show". He and many other brewers have really enjoyed those results. a Number of years ago I did it on my first Flanders Red with enjoyable results. I have my own blend now that I pitch at once.

Wyeast on the other hand built that blend so it could be used as a single pitch ferment. But that in no way means you have to. Personally I'm not a fan of the sherry strain in it which is why I use my blend, but also really like ECY02 from East Coast Yeast. At the brewery where I oversee Sour and Wild fermentation we use as custom blend I built that BSI banks for us.

Id say if you liked your Flanders red do the same thing with the Brown. If you thought it needed to be more sour then pitch the Roe blend sooner. The main thing I want you know is only pitching one of the Bretts will never make a sour beer....just a wild one. You need bacterias in there to produce the lactic acid notes that style needs.

[RLinNH]

Thanks for the reply and the information Brandon.