starter ale with lager yeast

[skerrydude]

I have a vial of lager yeast. I want to know if I can use that to brew a low gravity ale (1.040ish) so that I can pour a lager (dopplebock) on top of the remaining ale cake to generate enough yeast? I know that starters can be made at ale temp for lagers, but I am unsure of using an entire batch for a cake. Will any of the off flavors created by using the yeast at higher temp carry through to the lager that I brew in a couple weeks?

Thanks!

[brewinhard]

Why not just brew 5 gallons of a smaller gravity lager? You could make a dunkel, pilsner, or even dark american lager. If you weren't in the mood to brew a lager then why not consider a hybrid style beer fermented at cooler temps with lager yeast? think along the lines of kolsch, california common, etc.

I really don't see a problem with using your lager yeast cake fermented at ale temps. Just try to keep those ale temps a bit lower than normal to supress any wierd off flavors. I would be sure to get that yeast cooler than your lager that you want to pitch into so as not to shock them. I doubt that fermenting one healthy generation of lager yeast at warmer than normal temps would mutate the strain much, if at all. I could see it happenning over many generations getting used to performing at warmer temps, but not within one pitch.
Maybe someone else will chime in with some other thoughts on this one.....

[Ozwald]

Why not just brew 5 gallons of a smaller gravity lager? You could make a dunkel, pilsner, or even dark american lager. If you weren't in the mood to brew a lager then why not consider a hybrid style beer fermented at cooler temps with lager yeast? think along the lines of kolsch, california common, etc.

I really don't see a problem with using your lager yeast cake fermented at ale temps. Just try to keep those ale temps a bit lower than normal to supress any wierd off flavors. I would be sure to get that yeast cooler than your lager that you want to pitch into so as not to shock them. I doubt that fermenting one healthy generation of lager yeast at warmer than normal temps would mutate the strain much, if at all. I could see it happenning over many generations getting used to performing at warmer temps, but not within one pitch.
Maybe someone else will chime in with some other thoughts on this one.....

I like your first idea. The only part I disagree with is the "would mutate the strain much, if at all". It will. Probably not a huge amount, but the yeast will adjust to their environment & prefer it. I really wouldn't be worried until the 3rd or 4th gen, but I'm sure there would be a small, but noticeable difference even at the 2nd gen.

Brew a nice pilsner, rinse & pitch the cake. The cake is not a lie.

[spiderwrangler]

It is my understanding that lager yeast is propagated by yeast companies at warmer temps, so I don't see a problem using lager yeast in a smaller batch to prop up yeast for a bigger brew. If you are concerned about off flavors carrying over, do a rinse or series of rinses to get it cleaned up.

[Ozwald]

It is my understanding that lager yeast is propagated by yeast companies at warmer temps, so I don't see a problem using lager yeast in a smaller batch to prop up yeast for a bigger brew. If you are concerned about off flavors carrying over, do a rinse or series of rinses to get it cleaned up.

But you pour out a starter & get to drink the pils. Just sayin'.