acidulated malt - sub for base malt?

[animaldoc]

You'll be fine. I'd call 5.15 sticking the landing.

[mabrungard]

For that 5.19, it may not be what I would term a good landing. That pH is slightly depressed and it might affect the beer flavor. This beer should still be drinkable.

Adding acid malt is exactly like adding a dose of lactic acid. I doubt that a good brewer would just throw some lactic in the mash just because it sounds like a good idea or that someone else does it with their grist and their water and it will be OK for them too.

Although AJ is a proponent of acid malt, some brewers just blindly add it to their mash. If you listen to AJ closely, you'll find that he wouldn't add acid malt without some pre-knowledge or testing that indicated its need. Don't just assume that your water and grist need acid or acid malt unless you have a tool to give you indication of the need. Bru'n Water is one tool and a better tool is a calibrated pH meter.

By the way, I posted a message from Weyermann a week or so ago that in essence said that acid malt does have extract equal to their normal pils malt. Its just that the very low pH that is produced if this malt is tested in a Congress Mash is out of spec for the test method. Therefore, they don't publish an extract value since it is from a non-standard test. Assume acid malt provides the same extract as a Pils malt.

[ajdelange]

You'll probably be OK. Next time use half the amount. Or even none. If you got 5.19 with 2% that suggests you would (per the rule of thumb) have had 5.4 or so without. If that is indeed the case then you wouldn't need any acid at all.

I'm not familiar with the Union Jack CYBI recipe nor your water and am curious about them both. I did a search on Union Jack CYBI and found that it is mostly (83%) pale ale malt with a little Munich (10%) and Carapils (5%) and some crystal (2%). I'd guess a mash pH with RA close to 0 to be 5.5 or so and thus would guess you would get 5.3 with 2% sauermalz. That you got 5.2 is certainly within the accuracy limits of my WAG but it would be interesting to know, for example, what the DI mash pH of just the base malt you used is and what the water was like.

As you own a pH meter you are not a slave to spreadsheet predictions, Weyermann rules of thumb or AJ prognostications (though you can and should use any or all of them for planning). Do a test mash (you have actually just done a large one) and check pH . Or grind and stand by with the sauermalz but don't add it until after checking pH and then add half if you need it, check again and then add the other half if needed. This is effectively making your mash the test mash and the problem with that approach is the time lag you noted. But the next time you do the beer you will know how much to use.

Also practice with your pH meter. Check various things around the house with it. Learn its quirks and foibles. A good thing to check is Five Star 5.2. About 1.4 grams of that in 120 mL of DI water should read close to 5.82.

[Whitebeard_Brewer]

Since you guys are talking PH meters....what is a good one to get.....that won't break the bank, and is reliable???

[beltbuckle]

I use a Hanna Piccolo pH meter and have been happy with it. There are cheaper ones and more expensive ones (this on is about $150 online), but for the price this one suits a brewer's needs at a reasonable cost with +/- 0.01 accuracy and a 0.01 resolution. Calibration is manual but that is really not a big deal, just turn the trimmer screws to calibrate, only takes a few seconds.

[beltbuckle]

I'm not familiar with the Union Jack CYBI recipe nor your water and am curious about them both. I did a search on Union Jack CYBI and found that it is mostly (83%) pale ale malt with a little Munich (10%) and Carapils (5%) and some crystal (2%). I'd guess a mash pH with RA close to 0 to be 5.5 or so and thus would guess you would get 5.3 with 2% sauermalz. That you got 5.2 is certainly within the accuracy limits of my WAG but it would be interesting to know, for example, what the DI mash pH of just the base malt you used is and what the water was like.

Water was 17 gallons of (tested) 0ppm TDS RO/DI water, treated with 28.8 grams of gypsum and 13g of CaCl2 added.

[JohnF]

Since you guys are talking PH meters....what is a good one to get.....that won't break the bank, and is reliable???

The Hanna phep5 works well for me. Lots of homebrew shops have it. I think it is about $90 and the replacement probes are around $40.

Personally I wouldn't cheaper and when the probe needs replacing on mine I will probably personally upgrade. This one is easy to use and calibrate and performs well though.

You could get by with a cheaper meter but then you are getting into performance compromises.

If you go more expensive than the phep5 you are getting some combination of better electronics (displaying calibration parameters which helps you monitor probe degradation, storing readings, etc) or a better probe. One downside of the phep5 is the non standard probe, so you have no choice on replacement. If you get a meter with a standard bnc connection and for which you are happy with the electronics, you can upgrade the probe in the future if you wish. Some meters have dual function electronics and will also accept probes other than pH probes.

I know AJ has a dual function pH dissolved oxygen meter and I am currently trying to convince myself that I don't need one of those.

[ajdelange]

Water was 17 gallons of (tested) 0ppm TDS RO/DI water, treated with 28.8 grams of gypsum and 13g of CaCl2 added.

That's a whole bunch of calcium - enough to potentially drop the mash pH 0.2 relative to DI. So assuming 5.6 for base malt DI pH less the 0.2 gives 5.4. Less 0.2 for the sauermalz could get you to 5.2 and then a bit for the colored malt. Yes, those readings you got are consistent with the water treatment and grist.