When does a recipe become yours?

[Alchemywunderkid]

I'm all for giving credit where credit is due (and make sure to), but as we rebrew and tweak a recipe from its original form it is becoming something else. Some changes, like a hop substitution for availability or preference, don't really change the beer much from the original. Other changes however, like fermenting an ale recipe with a lager at lager temps, will radically change the end result. And, as probably is more-so the case, there may be a whole series of progressive changes over many brews that sculpt the beer to the preferences of the new brewer.

I honestly don't have a fixed opinion on this myself (hence the thread), but I'm thinking it depends on both the uniqueness of the original recipe and the uniqueness of the variation(s). For someone's bitter with Maris Otter and some crystal, that baby pretty much becomes yours as soon as you start tweaking it. For something like a Janet's Brown, which has a very unique malt and hop bill, I feel you'd have to make some REALLY significant changes to the point that it is almost unrecognizable before it has been altered enough for it to be called your own.

Where is everyone else's head at on this question?

One note though... I do think you can name the beer something unique with fairly minor changes for casual enjoyment and sharing, though that line should be a bit more strict when naming competition beers. I'm talking about when you switch from saying "based on such-and-such's recipe" to "my recipe".

[BenTheBrewer]

I absolutley LOVE this question! I have thought about this time and time again. My final thoughts were these:

1. When you start from scratch without looking at a recipe then it is your recipe.

2. There is more than just a recipe that makes a beer a beer. You can brew a clone recipe but your boil time, mash temps, fermenting temps, could all make significant changes in the beer. 3 guys brew the same recipe you may get 3 different beers.

3. There is a finite number of changes you can make to stay within BJCP guidelines. For example, you can brew a california common / steam beer with out Northern Brewer Hops, but it's not exactally what the BJCP SAYS is should be.

4. If You are a homebrewer... Tell your friends that it IS your recipe. There's a chance that they will never know anyways

I say start formulating from the BJCP guidelines with out looking at other recipes. There are so many recipes out there that there is a chance that the one you came up with (which was YOUR creation) has already been done. Ignorance is truely bliss in that situation.

[troybinso]

I am of the opinion that once you start brewing the beer, it is your beer. Sure you can get a list of ingredients that someone else uses to make a beer, but there are so many factors that go into brewing, that list becomes just one small part of the finished beer. I guess what I am trying to say is that there is no such thing as a beer "recipe", just some suggestions to point you in a certain direction.

[businesstime]

Recipes aren't beers. That said....

To paraphrase Jeremy Marshall, head brewer at Lagunitas,

"Anyone can make a recipe.".

Your brewhouse makes your beers, and unless you have impeccable reproducible procedures does any single beer come out like another. Therefore, I think every beer I make on my system is mine. The recipe is just a starting point.

[Bugeater]

It becomes your beer when you brew it. Even if you follow the recipe to the letter, your process and equipment are going to be a little different and it will come out as a different beer. The reason the CYBI guys are able to clone a recipe is not because they followed the exact recipe, but because they know their systems and change the recipe and process (i.e. make it their beer) to achieve the same flavor as the commercial beer.

When I brew a beer, I generally write my own recipe from the BJCP description as a start, but then tweak that to suit my tastes, and then check it against other recipes to see if I am way off track from how other folks interpret the style (though sometimes I just don't give a shit about style and just want something good). If I am in a hurry, I will start with an existing recipe but make changes in yeast or hops or specialty grains to suit my taste and what I have in inventory. It may be "based on" someone elses recipe, it is still uniquely my beer.

Wayne

[thatguy314]

It becomes your beer when you brew it. Even if you follow the recipe to the letter, your process and equipment are going to be a little different and it will come out as a different beer. The reason the CYBI guys are able to clone a recipe is not because they followed the exact recipe, but because they know their systems and change the recipe and process (i.e. make it their beer) to achieve the same flavor as the commercial beer.

When I brew a beer, I generally write my own recipe from the BJCP description as a start, but then tweak that to suit my tastes, and then check it against other recipes to see if I am way off track from how other folks interpret the style (though sometimes I just don't give a shit about style and just want something good). If I am in a hurry, I will start with an existing recipe but make changes in yeast or hops or specialty grains to suit my taste and what I have in inventory. It may be "based on" someone elses recipe, it is still uniquely my beer.

Wayne

+1.

My house IPA uses Munich, Honey Malt, and 2-row. I used these, because I liekd the malt bill on flower power and I used those malts til I hit the right SRM (they've since removed the Munich but that's besides the poitn). Just because I was targetting a similar malt bill doesn't mean it's someone else's recipe.

Similarly, I made an Imperial Stout just off the top of my head. I then went into BCS and saw that it was virtually identical to Jamil's (but C80 instead of Caramunich, a few differnces in yeast and mash temp). But the point remains, I still came up with it. I don't doubt that my way of thinking about recipes has been heavily affected by listening to the Jamil show, but he didn't think the recipe up for me.

But to answer the original question? I think it's when you make thoughtful choices about ingredients that go beyond tweaking an existing recipe. Or you publish them in a copyrighted book. Both definitions work.

[Hessian Lake]

I'd have to agree that no matter the source of the bill or schedules, it becomes your beer when you brew it. Everything comes into factor that make each brewhouse unique - equipment, water, local flora/air quality, brewer, yada, yada, yada

[Blunt]

I'm a relativly young brewer (only two years) and mostly hold with the same opinions that have been expressed so far. I do wish to add that people have been brewing good beer for thousands of years I believe that my recipes (even thought original to me) have been brewed to the same likeness many times. I brew to what I think that beer style should taste like weather it is a copied recipe or not.