Re: Black IPA? What’s next, Green IPA?

Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:02 pm

The name is stupid. "Black India Pale Ale"... yeah, it doesn't make any sense and never would have evolved if it weren't for how widely used the acronym "IPA" is. It's too easy to say and too easy to forget what the "P" stands for, so people just throw the word Black in front. It definitely needs a different name.

As for the beer itself, I do find this style really interesting. When I brew mine I brew it from the ground up with dark malt and I use slightly different hops that are a bit more earthy and dank to better go with the character that the Carafa Special adds. A lot of people will say that Carafa Special only adds color and no flavor but this simply isn't true. It doesn't add much ROASTY flavor, but it does add a whole other dimension to the beer - to me it's akin to a dark fruit character, like plums. I really feel like it's more than the sum of it's parts - it's not just an American IPA with a dark color.

Also, it's a crowd pleaser. I recently took six different homebrews to two different tasting events at two different brewpubs and in both cases the "Black IPA" was chosen as the beer they'd like to see brewed there as part of the regular lineup. I've spoken to quite a few people about it, both seasoned beer drinkers and casual beer drinkers and many of them agree that this beer bridges the gap between the purely stout-drinking crowd and the purely IPA-drinking crowd. Both teams can usually find something they like about this beer. It helps expand some people's horizons and get them more accustomed to flavors they otherwise wouldn't have thought they'd like.

Another effect this may have is helping to balance out competition entry numbers in certain styles. IPA typically has the most entries in many competitions. Perhaps with a Black IPA category more people will enter this instead of the IPA cat and things will be a little better balanced. Assuming that is a good thing ;)

I agree that it is kind of a gimmick. "Hey we're bored with IPAs, let's just make em BLACK!" But regardless of where the idea may have sprouted, I do think there's some merit in this "style", even if it's just for fun. But I've had a lot of success locally with this beer and find that people who normally don't like hops find themselves intrigued with this beer and before they know it they've drunk the whole pint. If this style can help more people appreciate a wider variety of styles then I'm all for it. But if it really is just a gimmick that doesn't serve any real purpose then I'm sure it will come and go like a bump on the road. For now though, I'm having fun with it. I'm interested to see what the character difference will be between Carafa Special and Chocolate Wheat, or Chocolate Rye, being that all of these malts have no husk.

Cheers :)
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Re: Black IPA? What’s next, Green IPA?

Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:12 pm

Brandon wrote:I have just been calling them India Black Ales


I see, "India" like the 18th century beers that were sent to India. I wonder if they had Sinamar then? :D Just f'n with ya Brandon. I like that better than Black IPA. Most are actually brown and all are American ales. There's a style name in there somewhere.

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Re: Black IPA? What’s next, Green IPA?

Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:29 pm

TastyMcD wrote:I see, "India" like the 18th century beers that were sent to India. I wonder if they had Sinamar then? :D Just f'n with ya Brandon. I like that better than Black IPA.
Tasty

:lol:

I did see a facebook group trying to get it called "Cascadian Dark Ale"

I guess we could start throwing out names...surely as dumb as we all are as a group we could come up with a name. Just off the top of my head

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Re: Black IPA? What’s next, Green IPA?

Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:14 pm

Tasty,

I think you need to lighten up. Go have a Safety meeting with Shat.

Make a Black IPA that is amazing. Janet's Brown isn't 'to style' but can bring home wins.

It's Friday. Time to go home and have a pint. :jnj

Cheers,
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Re: Black IPA? What’s next, Green IPA?

Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:55 pm

Tasty >> I agree with your sentiments,

However, I've had some black IPAs that certainly have more than a color change. They've had some significant roasty notes to it that added complexity. That said, I've had far more that are the exact beer you're complaining of. Does that mean there should be a new style? I don't know. I think to be a new style there has to be a number of good examples with a diversity of character. Maybe because I'm on the east coast, but the only good commercial example I've had is Stone Self-Righteous (which when I got it on tap had a fairly strong roast character, and only moderately strong hops (though that could have been dampened by the strength of the roast character).

Certainly I think much more innovation has been put into the Belgian (Tripel/Golden Strong) IPA. I've had far Belgian IPAs than black IPAs with something more to say (Captain Lawrence Xtra Gold, Houblong Chouffe, Gouden Carolus Hopsinjoor, Urthel Hop-It, Piraat, Green Flash Le Freak, Stone Cali-Belgique IPA, and more). These beers have diversity of style (golden strong, tripel, or traditional IPA backbone), hop character (fruity american hops to spicy continental hops), yeast character (variety of belgian strains), etc., Many are very well made, and show more creativity

However, I think changes like this basically differ from the intrinsic style by a an addition of some dark malt, or a change of yeast strain. I don't think that it's an entirely new style, just an interesting (and somewhat popular) variation of the existing style. I do think there is some degree of recipe modification that may be required to make this work. But it's that way with any specialty beer.

Honestly, my opinion, EVERY SINGLE BJCP CATEGORY SHOULD HAVE A SPECIALTY CATEGORY just to account for variations like these. But that's my 2 cents. Is it easier to judge An imperial mild against milds, or against a chocolate-raison dunkelweizen? I think against milds. Just like specialty belgians are judged against other belgians. And I think category 23 should be reserved for truely unique and style-defying creations, not something that's a slight twist on an existing style.

However, in my ramblings I have come to a thought. Creating styles like this for a competition, IMO, inspires people to try to brew a beer to fit these styles, and to be creative. Just like reiheitsgebot inspired the Germans to develop a million kinds of malt, from munich to coffee malt, I think telling people to work under some fairly wide constraints can inspire people to come up with some unique and interesting beers. If the maltose falcons want to have some weird categories for their comp to see what they can produce, by all means, let them. HOWEVER, I don't think these styles should be limited to the latest trend in what's ALREADY BEING BREWED. I think it would be even more interesting to come up with a crazy new style, that has some limited existing examples, and to tell brewers to define some great examples of this style. Of course that's harder than it sounds isn't it?

Wow I've rambled a lot. Friday afternoon happy hour got me a little tipsy today.
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Re: Black IPA? What’s next, Green IPA?

Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:23 pm

I agree there are some "Black IPAs" that use character malts to darken the beer. Stone does a great job. And I'm certainly open to new styles like Belgo-American beers with the right hops. I'm just saying that most beer outlets have a limited number of taps and package stores have limitations as well. Why have the same beer there twice. Sinamar in the bright tank isn't a new beer if I can't taste the Sinamar over the 8% alcohol and 70 IBUs. I'm just afraid homebrewer are stepping in line instead of crying foul. When I see a style guideline that describes the very beer I'm saying isn't a new beer at all, I get a little testy. Yes, Testy Tasty. (I think I just named my second pro beer). Yes, I entered a Sinamared beer into the Black IPA category and an unaltered version into the Imperial IPA category. Unless it's not black enough, I would expect a similar score. Right?

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Re: Black IPA? What’s next, Green IPA?

Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:52 pm

I think food coloring would have been less expensive, if you are just attempting to prove a point. :)

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Re: Black IPA? What’s next, Green IPA?

Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:25 am

Here's mine. It's imperial but I use no chocolate:

Imperial Bastard
17 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) 87.18 %
1 lbs Special B Malt (147.0 SRM) 5.13 %
0.5 lbs Caraaroma (130.0 SRM) 2.56 %
0.5 lbs Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) 2.56 %
0.5 lbs Demerara sugar (2.0 SRM) 2.56 %
0.5 oz Galena [14.20 %] (90 min) (FWH) 21.1 IBU
1.00 oz Galena [14.20 %] (60 min) 46.8 IBU
1.00 oz Nugget [14.10 %] (20 min) 15.6 IBU
1.00 oz Chinook [12.40 %] (20 min) 13.8 IBU
1.00 oz Nugget [14.10 %] (2 min) 7.7 IBU
1.00 oz Chinook [12.40 %] (2 min) 6.8 IBU
1.25 oz Centennial [9.00 %] (Dry Hop 14 days)
0.38 oz Nugget [14.10 %] (Dry Hop 14 days)
0.38 oz Chinook [12.40 %] (Dry Hop 14 days)
1.00 tsp Wyeast Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min)
2 Pkgs SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #S-05)
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