Lager starters at room temp

[BigNastyBrew]

I first started brewing lagers with starters grown at fermentation temperatures. Sure, they were fermenting but the beers wouldn't take off for a few days (I probably wasn't giving the starters enough time at those temps).

Recently, I've seen many people advise to go with all starters at room temp. Even heard a couple episodes of the Jamil Show (pre-CYBI) where Plise and others advocated room temp starters. I've done this for my last 4 lagers (still in phases of fermentation and lagering) and they yeast grew quickly and took off in the beers within 12-18 hours as advertised.

Last night, I was listening to Dan Gordon #1 and he talked about the tests they were running with propagation. He said that when they used warmer prop. the cells were highly inconsistent--sometimes noting several mutant buds with multiple nucleae in one cell. He said that once they coold prop. back down to 48°, they were getting a much higher consistency with the quality of the yeast.

I know there are opinions everywhere, scientific or not. Anyone have any thoughts on this? What will "mutant cells" do to my beer and how worried do I need to be. Sure, there is the RDWHAHB mentality of some but I actually get a kick out of learning this super-nerdy shit.

[speed]

i've made all my lager starters at room temp and haven't noticed any off flavors or anything funky about them.

[BigNastyBrew]

I've done my last 4 lagers with starters at room temp and tasting before kegging shows no issues. I just don't want any surprises down the road.

[thatguy314]

Do you guys use these lager yeast for multiple repitches though, or just one fermentation?

[BigNastyBrew]

I personally do only first generation but not because I think it's better. I just do it because I'm not embarking on new projects (yeast harvesting) until I finish school in May.

[jwatkins56550]

Maybe its not due to warm propagation temps that he was getting mutant yeast cells. While cold propagating it solved the problem, it could have been another issue. Yeast mutate under poor conditions, so maybe something else was causing these poor conditions. It's hard to argue with Dan Gordon though cause he is The Man.

[BigNastyBrew]

Maybe its not due to warm propagation temps that he was getting mutant yeast cells. While cold propagating it solved the problem, it could have been another issue. Yeast mutate under poor conditions, so maybe something else was causing these poor conditions. It's hard to argue with Dan Gordon though cause he is The Man.

Well, that's entirely possible. Who knows what else was digging those warmer temperatures.

Yes, DG is the man.

[Barley_Water]

I personally have made all my lager starters at room temp. While I have nothing really scientific to back myself up, I have never had any off flavors I would attribute to the yeast, and a few mutants probably won't do much harm if any during their first generation. If you are reusing the yeast from that batch, I would treat the yeast as nicely as possible from the time you open the package, but for just one beer I doubt the mutant cells will have enough time to regenerate significantly and cause problems.