my notes from Brew Strong - Why Adjust Your Water

Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:55 pm

Do you guys care if I made alot of notes on the first water episode and posted them here? If not, I hope to do the same for the other water chemistry shows.

Brew Strong: Why Adjust Your Water

The first concern is that you want the water to taste good. Good flavor.

When you go deeper, you start looking at the mineral profiles.
Some want to emulate a particular city’s water.
But for whatever reason, the bottom line is brewers are looking for a better flavored beer.
The right water makup (minerals and pH) can enhance the flavor of the beer.

You can adjust the pH of the mash, and thereby the pH of the beer. affect how we percieve the beer on our tounge

within the appropriate range
more acidic -> beer a little brighter/drier
more basic -> beer is a little more mellow/softer

As you move away from the generally optimum pH range for beer, which is in the lower 4s
more acidic -> sharper
more basic (in upper 4s) -> rounder, then duller, then can get bitter in an alkaline sense

Water can have a profound effect on beer.

Chloride/Sulfate ratio. Chloride tends to be a malt enhancer (kind of like salt in soup).. can make malt taste rounder, fuller. Sulfate tends to dry out and accentuate the hop bitterness.

Chloride is a good thing to have (0 to 250ppm), but too much can be like adding to much seasoning to food… too much of a good thing.

The situation is different with extract brewers and all-grain brewers. Where you run into trouble is where you have water that is highly alkaline or basic. If you add that to malt extract (which still has the minerals left from the water it was produced with, and then was later dehydrated), you are rehydrating by adding more highly alkaline water and the beer can become very dull or harshly bitter. In these cases, the extract brewer can decrease the mineral content of the water added by using deionized water or RO water (distilled water). You can safely brew any extract kit with deionized water.

deionized water -> ion exchange resins utilized, strips everything out
reverse osmosis water -> water forced through a membrane, 95% of minerals stripped out, depending on effectiveness of the membrane
distilled water -> a steam process is used.. water is collected from the steam

Special note about spring water. Many can have alot of minerals. Sometimes they even add minerals. Research the concentration of minerals in the spring water before you use it. Otherwise, just use distilled water with extract, and all the necessary minerals will still be in the extract from when it was dehydrated.

Listen to the description of Chicken City Ale Raisers (Alpharetta, Georgia) Graham Cox’s NHC Gold Medal Light American Lager at around 26 minutes. JP talked to Graham afterwards and was told that Graham carefully adjusted his brewing water.

Also, Kristen England’s Gold medal for Munich Helles the year before. Kristen wrote the water section of the BJCP exam. Check out his pic on the BJCP website
http://www.bjcp.org/officers.php

Be careful on the adjustment. JZ -> “Easier than making it better, you can make it worse.”

What are the minerals that are most important to adjust?
Primarily -> Calcium and Magnesium (these are the hardness ions)… mostly Calcium. Magnesium typically exists at 1/4 to 1/3 the concentration of Calcium.
Other Ions -> Sodium, Chloride, Sulfate and Bicarbonate (or the Carbonate family)
Bicarbonate -> is the big Alkalinity ion

Notes concerning the Carbonate Family
CO2 in the atmosphere, diffuses into water, forms carbonic acid
then depending on the pH will either exist as carbonic acid, bicarbonate (HCO3) or carbonate (CO3)

Different ratios of the forms of the carbonate family will be predominant at different pHs.

John Palmer says don’t get wrapped up in Temporary vs. Permanent Hardness or you’ll get sidetracked.

Pure Water has a pH of 7. 7 is neutral.
0 to 7 pH is acidic
7 to 14 pH is basic or alkaline

The pH of rainwater is 5, due to the carbonic acid picked up in the air. Even if you leave distilled water out for a few weeks, it can change pH, one direction or the other, due to what is in the air. (37:54)

The carbonate species are the big drivers in terms of brewing chemistry.

Important terms:
Water Hardness – Water Alkalinity
Permanent Hardness – Temporary Hardness

(38:25) Temporary Hardness is where you boil the water and you get chalk precipitating out onto the sides of the pot. That is calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate.

Due to the action of boiling and the incorporation of additional oxygen from the atmosphere during the boil, you can get precipitation of a certain % of your Calcium and Magnesium, and that is referred to as Temporary Hardness.

You still have left behind the Permanent Hardness. This hardness is typically associated with Sulfate. Sulfate does not precipitate out. (repeats that you can get off track here) So you can talk about Permanent Hardness being the coordination of Calcium, Magnesium and Sulfate. (JP reminds that this really isn’t all that germane to brewing.) (39.43)

What you should be concerned about is the Total Hardness that you have in your brewing water vs. the Total Alkalinity.

(39:56) When you consider all the various minerals and ions, and you put them together with the malt bill, the picture you get is Residual Alkalinity. You have the Water Hardness balanced against the Water Alkalinity and then you have the natural acidity and buffering capacity of the malt.. the particular grain bill that you’re using.

(40:30) All of those 3 factors come together like balancing a Triangle. Those 3 things determine the mash pH, and drives the beer pH. and everything else down the line.

It’s like guns and battles and someone directing the war… you may wine a few battles here and there adjusting your water, but until you understand Residual Alkalinity, you’re not going to win the War.

Triangle is the Hardness, the Alkalinity and the Malt Bill, and that drives the eventual pH of the beer, the mineral profile of the beer, and the flavor of the beer.

(48:10) General Rules on Ratios

Calcium is an important brewing ion. It takes part in alot of the reactions in the brewing and fermentation processes. It affects yeast health, yeast flocculation, beer clarity, mash pH.

at least 50ppm Calcium is recommended by most brewing scientists. 100ppm is good. If you get over 150ppm, you’re going to start swinging the pH too much depending on the style of beer. (brewing texts generally geared toward pale light lagers, so take that into account when considering the brewing science text recommendations.

Magnesium is important for yeast health and to enzyme co-factor. But in terms of the yeast, they will get all the need from the malt itself. Magnesium will come out into solution during the mash, so even if your water has only 10ppm Magnesium, your yeast will get all they need from the wort itself. Just something to be aware of.

Bicarbonate -> 0 to 50ppm for pale beers, 50 to 150ppm for pale to brown, 150 to 250 for dark beers

(52:30) Reading Water Report

Sulfate -> 50 to 150ppm for normal beers, 150 to 300ppm for APA and IPA. sulfate will accentuate hop bitterness and dry out palate.

Sodium and Chloride 0 to 150ppm, maybe 250ppm for chloride

JP does not recommend adding Sodium, but there is not much real use. Chloride is good for rounding out malt character, but sodium not so much.

Sulfate to Chloride ratio -> If the Sulfate dominates, the beer will be balanced toward the bitter. If the Chloride dominates, the beer will be balanced toward the malt.

0 to 1/2 chloride to sulfate ratio will be a very bitter beer
1/2 to 3/4 chloride to sulfate ratio will be moderately bitter beer
3/4 to 1 1/4 (around the 1:1 ratio) chloride to sulfate ratio will be balanced malt/hops
1 1/4 to 1 1/2 chloride to sulfate ratio will favor the malt
1 1/2 to 2 chloride to sulfate ratio will be very malty

(56:18) Chloride to Sulfate Ratio is all arm waving

If the pH of the mash gets too low (down in the 4s), the fermentability of the wort will suffer.
John Little
Auburn, Alabama
banjolawyer
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:11 am
Location: Auburn, Alabama

Re: my notes from Brew Strong - Why Adjust Your Water

Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:37 pm

Wow. Obviously you weren't in the chat that night.
"Mash, I made you my bitch!" -Tasty
User avatar
Dirk McLargeHuge
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 5702
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:43 pm
Location: Fredericksburg, Texas

Re: my notes from Brew Strong - Why Adjust Your Water

Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:28 am

Ok, got my 2008 water report. I have listened the first and 1/2 the second eps of this. I am trying to figure out WTF I am doing here. Is there anything else like this someplace. The "I am too stupid to get this" text?
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You are not brought upon this world to get it!
User avatar
derfburg
 
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 9:12 am
Location: Fort Smith, AR

Re: my notes from Brew Strong - Why Adjust Your Water

Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:40 am

I listened to those shows about 4 times, and finally had to sit and listen while looking at my water report and staring at Palmer's spreadsheet. I now think I have a pretty good handle on things.

I did figure out how to add Canning Salt into his spreadsheet, just to give another option for salt additions.

Don't get too frustrated, it's a lot to figure out.
Stabwell Brewing

BN Army Corporal

On Tap:
American Brown Ale
Milk Stout
Janet's Brown Ale
Murphy's Over the wall Amber
American Wheat

Primary:
Citra Hop IPA
User avatar
Otter
 
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:07 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: my notes from Brew Strong - Why Adjust Your Water

Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:42 am

Otter wrote:I listened to those shows about 4 times, and finally had to sit and listen while looking at my water report and staring at Palmer's spreadsheet. I now think I have a pretty good handle on things.

I did figure out how to add Canning Salt into his spreadsheet, just to give another option for salt additions.

Don't get too frustrated, it's a lot to figure out.

Congratulations, you have just been added to my "Emergency Go To Guy" list. :)
"Mash, I made you my bitch!" -Tasty
User avatar
Dirk McLargeHuge
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 5702
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:43 pm
Location: Fredericksburg, Texas

Re: my notes from Brew Strong - Why Adjust Your Water

Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:58 am

Where is this spreadsheet? I need all the help I can get.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You are not brought upon this world to get it!
User avatar
derfburg
 
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 9:12 am
Location: Fort Smith, AR

Re: my notes from Brew Strong - Why Adjust Your Water

Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:05 am

Palmer's residual alkalinity spreadsheet is here at the bottom of the page.
I think he's up to version 2.4 now.

There's a sticky in the all-grain forum for it.
Stabwell Brewing

BN Army Corporal

On Tap:
American Brown Ale
Milk Stout
Janet's Brown Ale
Murphy's Over the wall Amber
American Wheat

Primary:
Citra Hop IPA
User avatar
Otter
 
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:07 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: my notes from Brew Strong - Why Adjust Your Water

Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:12 am

Otter wrote:I think he's up to version 2.4 now.


Cancel that. He's up to 2.5. And he's added Canning Salt!
Stabwell Brewing

BN Army Corporal

On Tap:
American Brown Ale
Milk Stout
Janet's Brown Ale
Murphy's Over the wall Amber
American Wheat

Primary:
Citra Hop IPA
User avatar
Otter
 
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:07 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Return to Brew Strong

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

A BIT ABOUT US

The Brewing Network is a multimedia resource for brewers and beer lovers. Since 2005, we have been the leader in craft beer entertainment and information with live beer radio, podcasts, video, events and more.