Full on double Nelson Rye IPA (recipe planning)

[Broners&Brewbies]

Wanted to make a beer using all Nelson Sauvin but I wanted it to be more than a bare bones IPA w/ nelson so I came up with this recipe. I think it sounds interesting but if anyone has any contributions I'd love to hear it.

Full Nelson
14-C Imperial IPA

Size: 6.02 gal
Efficiency: 73.0%
Attenuation: 80.0%
Calories: 299.78 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.090 (1.075 - 1.090)
Terminal Gravity: 1.018 (1.010 - 1.020)
Color: 12.24 (8.0 - 15.0)
Alcohol: 9.53% (7.5% - 10.0%)
Bitterness: 98.7 (60.0 - 120.0)

Ingredients:
14.50 lb American 2-row
4 lb Rye Malt
.5 lb Rye Flaked
1.50 lb Midwest Wheat Malt
1 lb American Munich
0.50 lb Crystal 60
1 oz Nelson Sauvin (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60.0 m
2.0 oz Nelson Sauvin (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 30.0 m
3.0 oz Nelson Sauvin (13.0%) - steeped after boil (whirlpool for 45 min)
5.0 oz Nelson Sauvin (13.0%) - added dry to primary fermenter
2.0 oz Nelson Sauvin (13.0%) - added to keg for serving
2.0 ea WYeast 1968 London ESB Ale™


Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.5.21

Will report back w/ a yay or nay on it.

Also trying to decide on mashing high or low on this one. Will it be too cloying if I mash around 156 (like a lagunitas) or should I mash low around 150 to get it attenuated down.

[Jbug]

I think it looks pretty good! The only things I would do different would be to swap some of the base malt for simple sugar, to drive the FG down... IIPAs need to be pretty dry... add it to the carboy a couple days into fermentation ...
I would also consider doing a 90 min boil. As for the mash temp I would go low to aid in drying that beer out! 150- 151.... good luck sir!


josh

[LeSinge]

I did a single-wort/single-hop experiment some month ago with some NZ hops, and the tasting notes I got back from the Nelson Sauvin were:
VARIETY:
Nelson Sauvin

AROMA:
sf--tomato plant, citrus, green berry, candy (?), aroma tends toward Simcoe catty/onion as it warms
dn--grapefruit, tomato plant, grassy, green onion
kn--grape skin, citrus

FLAVOR:
sf--grassy, citrus, melon rind?, tomato leaf, gooseberry description very apt
dn--some grapefruit mixed with grass, green onion tops, tomato leaf, a touch of green apple
kn--some mead-like characteristics, not honey, but fermented & aged mead

FINISH/OVERALL IMPRESSION:
sf--wow, this is unusual, and a potent hop as well, needs balance/support of other varieties, maybe Nugget/Chinook early in boil and Centennial/Ahtanum flavor, aroma or dryhop, smooth bitterness, but a little wood/sweet earth element in background
dn--maybe not good for strongly hopped beers, too much of this hop, strange
kn--an overwhelming hop, use restraint, hard to describe the unusual flavor from the bittering addition

HOP LEVEL COMPARISON:
AROMA (1-10):
sf--8
dn--9
FLAVOR (1-10):
sf--10
dn--9
BITTERNESS (1-10):
sf--9
dn--7

Hopefully this may help, especially with the amounts of Flavor, Aroma, and Dry Hops used

[Broners&Brewbies]

I'm sorry but could you clarify what your abbreviations are for? Thanks for the post I appreciate the help.

[adamK]

I just killed a keg of a Nelson Sauvin/Pacific Gem IPA. I would STRONGLY suggest using restraint with the Nelson Sauvin and or mixing it with a modern american variety. My hop schedule is below for reference (it seems even lighter on the NS than you are attempting). I was able to drink the batch, but it wasn't pretty. The Nelson just overpowered everything in a bad and distinctly Nelson way (I thought it would have been the pacific gem). When I used the IPA in blends (especially with a hint of roast from a porter), the flavors become quite nice. A buddy and I brewed another beer with NS yesterday, cutting it with equal parts chinook, and the aroma and flavor seemed much more balanced and delicious. It was a barleywine, though, so I won't have results until next year. The flavor of the NS is awesome, but overpowering as ****. When they say use judiciously, they mean it. Obviously, your results may vary.

OG 1.067

0.5 oz NZ Pacific Gem 16.3% 60 min
1.0 oz NZ Pacific Gem 16.3% 20 min
1.0 oz NZ Nelson Sauvin 11.5% 10 min
1.0 oz NZ Nelson Sauvin 11.5% 5 min
1.0 oz NZ Nelson Sauvin 11.5% dry hop 7 days
1.0 oz NZ Pacific Gem 16.3% dry hop 7 days

With that in mind, I would suggest mashing high to potentially balance the NS.

Good luck, and let us know how your experiment turns out!!

[Broners&Brewbies]

Hmm that makes it sound a bit scary. However if your IBU's came out to be around 90 (using Rager) your bitterness to gravity ratio was 1.34 (right?)
Mine would be 1.088 which is a lot less hop forward but if this hop is as intense as your stating my all Nelson hop bill could end up being a disaster. If I wanted to keep the IBU's the same but cut back on some of that Nelson kick perhaps the dry hop and whirlpool additions should be cut back dramatically to say 1 oz each?

I really want to learn this hop as the explanation of it just intrigues me. I'm living in Germany and have not come across a beer that uses it so I've wanted to brew one with it for a while. I'm afraid if I cut it w/ something like nugget or chinook I'm going to loose what makes Nelson so Nelson-y

I say screw it this is what homebrewing is all about...I'm going to jump in and brew the recipe mash high (157) and also w/ the cutbacks on whirlpool and dry-hop as I stated and see what happens. Worse case I end up aging it and blending like you did.

Thanks again for all the help guys I'll report back w/ my outcome.

[adamK]

Hmm that makes it sound a bit scary. However if your IBU's came out to be around 90 (using Rager) your bitterness to gravity ratio was 1.34 (right?)
Mine would be 1.088 which is a lot less hop forward but if this hop is as intense as your stating my all Nelson hop bill could end up being a disaster. If I wanted to keep the IBU's the same but cut back on some of that Nelson kick perhaps the dry hop and whirlpool additions should be cut back dramatically to say 1 oz each?

I was getting an IBU of 81.9 using Rager and BeerAlchemy, and a ratio of 1.21. It didn't seem overly bitter to me. My isomerization always seems a bit low compared to calculations (and compared to the flavor and aroma I feel I am getting), but I am not sure if it is the altitude (5000ft), burnt out taste buds or process. I think 1oz each should be a good test. Either way, who knows how I might have screwed my batch up. It will be nice to have some homebrewing statistics about NS.

I really want to learn this hop as the explanation of it just intrigues me. I'm living in Germany and have not come across a beer that uses it so I've wanted to brew one with it for a while. I'm afraid if I cut it w/ something like nugget or chinook I'm going to loose what makes Nelson so Nelson-y

I say screw it this is what homebrewing is all about...I'm going to jump in and brew the recipe mash high (157) and also w/ the cutbacks on whirlpool and dry-hop as I stated and see what happens. Worse case I end up aging it and blending like you did.

Hell yeah. I live in Montana, where there is decent beer, but not much hop-forward beer. I have been trying it out for the same reasons. It is definitely unique in a great way (not just a spin on citrus/pine). I bought a pound in an attempt to figure the hop out, so I have a vested interest in learning how to properly use it.

[LeSinge]

the abbreviations are initials of tasters
the 'hop level' 1-10 was to judge the single hop against the others in the flight (Pacifica, Pacific Gem, Nelson Sauvin, and Cascade as a 'control')

btw
OG was 1070 for the single wort
IBUS ~67 per batch
the same weight amounts were used at 20, 0 and dryhop (1.00, .50, 1.00 ounces each) with the 60 minute charge adjusted to arrive within .3 of 67 IBUs

My next Nelson brew will be with Pacifica to help temper and contrast NS for a better, more rounded flavor.

Good luck with your brewday
and
PLEASE! update later with your tasting notes so we can all learn more about this, and any other, 'rare' hop!