Plus the extensive discussion at viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17060.

I'd guess the "correct" range of RA for stouts is something like 0 - 400 based on the diversity of waters with which stouts are brewed all over the world (see Lewis's book). My stouts come in between 70 and 80 SRM and are brewed with untreated water with an RA of about 50.

Thanks AJ..my porter tastes great and fermented out at about 82% apparent attenuation...best I've ever seen with WLP001.

You should talk to J and do another water show with John Palmer and Jamil.

Wow, great thread. I know this thread has been quiet for awhile, but I just got into this spreadsheet and I am doing some fine tuning to my water. I will admit right now that water chemistry is not my thing. As a result, I am always looking for some type of simple magic bullet which I know does not really apply with this topic. But here's my situation. I make relatively "balanced" and often "malty" all-grain beer. When I enter my water numbers into JP's sheet and make no dilutions or salt additions, my chloride-to-sulfate ratio shows "very malty". My water numbers, as given to me by the fine people at Ward Labs go like this:

pH: 6.6
Total dissolved solids (TDS): 264
Sodium: 13
Potassium: 2
Calcium: 34
Magnesium: 12
Total Hardness: 135
Nitrate, No3-N: 0.4
Sulfate, SO4-S: 9
Chloride: 21
Carbonate, CO3: <1
Bicarbonate, HCO3: 138
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3: 113

With my recipes, the malt-to-hop ratios are already on the malty side. My question is whether or not my water profile compounds this maltiness and whether I need to add something like Magnesium sulfate (epsom salt) or gyspum to my mash. When I make something like a pale ale or amber ale, I'll often use anywhere from 2-4 grams of gypsum for a noticeably "spiky" difference. But I have spoken to a number of people who say that you don't necessarily want to do that same thing for something like a pilsner, amber lager, helles, cream ale, etc. I just made one of my maltier pale ales (7¼ lbs pale malt, 1 lbs C60°L, 12 oz wheat and 1 oz Mt. Hood 5.2% for 60 minutes, WLP001) and decided to adjust my chloride-to-sulfate ratio with about 2 gms of epsom salt. That beer is in primary and I'll know the results soon enough. Does adding some amount of gypsum or epsom salt seem reasonable for adding a bit of "crispness" to beers that seem to be lacking it? Are there styles out there where gyspum should never be used for this purpose? Thanks guys, great discussion.

This is the place to post that question...I'd say tha in my experience, the spreadsheet rings true for most beers up to SRMs for my American Brown, but there are still exceptions. For example, I've been told to avoid gypsum in conjunction with noble hops. In any case, I have tweaked my water by diluting and adding salts in accordance with the spreadsheet and the "Waterganza" along with AJ Delange's advice and had great results. Hope that helps...hopefully someone who KNOWS water (like John P, Tasty, JZ or AJ) will weigh in.

Cheers,

I believe the term is procrasterbate.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=procrasterbate

Thanks TimmyR:

I'll add some extra info. Some of these beers are well balanced, but just seem to have a sort of malty overtone. The beer seems bitter enough and I think there are plenty of hops. I always check to make sure gravity is down before racking out of primary and some of these beers have been mashed as low as 148° and they still seem like they have this maltiness. Again, I think this is fine tuning but I would love some sort of guideline about whether this is actually a result of this chloride-to-sulfate ratio (which I just heard about a week ago) or something else. I began to think I was mashing high, but I went out and picked up a nice glass lab thermometer which seems to work very well. I have made about 350 five-gallon batches of beer over the last 10+ years so it's about time I get a little better understanding of how my water is affecting my beers. Please let me know if there is additional information I can give about these recipes or procedures. Cheers guys!

OK, BeerTools lets me add table salt to my water chemistry while building from scratch but I do not see that option on Palmer's Spreadsheet. Am I missing something? Do I remember correctly that in order to add salt, I should use plain sea salt or kosher salt?

If you have the most recent version of the spreadsheet, there is a place to add "canning salt". You don't want to use the usual table salt since it is usually iodized (has a bit of iodine incorporated). If your table salt specifically states that it is not iodized, it would be OK to use. If I recall (and I guess Palmer's spreadsheet is implying) canning salt isn't iodized. Kosher salt would be OK to use but definitely weigh it out - it is not as dense as other salts, so measuring by volume (e.g. teaspoon) will be fewer grams. Not sure what "plain sea salt" is composed of. Many sea salts have other minerals in their composition besides sodium and chloride. Personally, I haven't used NaCl for any of my mashwater formulations. They are concocted from chalk, gypsum, CaCl2, bicarbonate and/or epsom salt.