Using brewing yeast for bread

[Bugeater]

I am currently making a bread (currently rising as I type this) with some milled munich malt added to it. The dough tastes wonderful. I'll let you know after Thanksgiving how the finished bread turned out. The basic recipe is a dinner roll recipe with turbinado sugar in place of white sugar and the flour split about 50% white flour, 25% whole wheat flour and 25% milled munich malt. If the bread turns out good, I post the recipe.

Wayne

[Ozwald]

If the bread turns out good, I post the recipe.

If it turns out bad, post the recipe with what you'd do differently next time.

I've got those beers for you, I just haven't had a chance to send them out considering what the past week has sent my way. I may just kill two birds with one stone and ship them the same time I send my SS'09 package in a couple weeks.

[calpete]

Thanks for the sourdough help everyone. Now I just need to come up with a name for my starter.

Happy Thanksgiving!

[Ozwald]

Now I just need to come up with a name for my starter.

I'd go with 'Doug'

Actually, all this talk got me to get one going yesterday afternoon. Haven't checked on PhilBob yet this morning, but I doubt there's any activity yet.

[wunderbier]

I tried making focaccia today with some nottingham slurry. Didn't work so well. I actually started last night by making a 100% hydration starter with a teaspoon of slurry. It made a few bubbles in the first couple of hours and I put it in the fridge before going to bed. By morning there was no progress. Logical, considering it's an ale yeast, but a major strike against using it if it can't develop a starter in the fridge overnight. I could have left it out, but was afraid of the starter becoming too boozy. So this morning I added the rest of the flour and water and 40g worth of slurry. (I usually use about 20g of baker's yeast cake in this recipe.) Nothing. It just sat there and turned into a lump of clay. A couple hours later I incorporated some vinegar and additional flour to help the yeast out, but they'll have none of it. I may make another attempt, but this stuff seems pretty useless.

[Ozwald]

I tried making focaccia today with some nottingham slurry. Didn't work so well. I actually started last night by making a 100% hydration starter with a teaspoon of slurry. It made a few bubbles in the first couple of hours and I put it in the fridge before going to bed. By morning there was no progress. Logical, considering it's an ale yeast, but a major strike against using it if it can't develop a starter in the fridge overnight. I could have left it out, but was afraid of the starter becoming too boozy. So this morning I added the rest of the flour and water and 40g worth of slurry. (I usually use about 20g of baker's yeast cake in this recipe.) Nothing. It just sat there and turned into a lump of clay. A couple hours later I incorporated some vinegar and additional flour to help the yeast out, but they'll have none of it. I may make another attempt, but this stuff seems pretty useless.

You need to leave it out on the counter. You're basically crashing it by putting it in the fridge. It won't become 'boozy'. With a sourdough starter, you will notice a small amount of greyish liquid floating on top. This is the alcohol, which won't mix with the starter, and it just gets poured off when you throw away half at feeding time (or just pour it off before doughing it).

How thick was your starter? If it's too thick you may have problems getting it going. I've long since stopped measuring ingredients for my sourdough starter since I've done it way too many times. I'm guessing it's about 50/50, but I'm looking for thin wallpaper paste or runny pancake batter.

Also what was your recipe? Have you baked it before without the Nottingham (I caught the 'usually use 20g bakers yeast', but I'm asking how familiar you are with the recipe) Where did the yeast come from? Fresh, starter, primary fermenter?

Here's what I would do. Just like rehydrating a dry yeast pack, I'd toss some yeast in a separate container with a little water (& since it's for bread, I'd toss in about a teaspoon of sucrose - table sugar) & just leave it on the counter to become active while I'm getting everything else ready. When it's nice & happy, mix it with 2 cups of flour & add 1/4 - 1/3 cup of water a splash at a time until all flour has been absorbed. It's not *as* important with a flat bread, but do not overmix the flour. You'll break down the glutens & end up with a much harder, firmer bread instead of a fluffy, light loaf that most people would want to be making. Take your dough & knead gently on a lightly floured surface for maybe a minute or so. Light oil a large bowl & turn your dough ball until it's coated. Cover it with a warm, damp cloth & let it rise for 30 minutes or so. It should roughly double in size - let it go a little longer until it has. This is when I'd preheat the oven - I'd go for 475 or maybe a little more, but I live at 6000'. At sea-level, 450-460 would probably be sufficient. Degas the dough and and pat/knead (gently) into shape on an oiled cookie sheet. Brush with oil & sprinkle a 1/4 tsp of salt (I like to use Kosher for this step). Bake 10-20 minutes. 10 will be a softer, moist loaf, but if you like the outside a little darker & crunchier, leave it in for 20. I go for 20 minutes for a better crust/color, but when I pull it from the oven I allow it to cool on the cookie sheet for 60-90 seconds, then carefully remove and put it in a large ziplock or wrap air-tight with plastic wrap. This should soften the outer crust to perfection.

Now I just need to come up with a name for my starter.

I'd go with 'Doug'

Actually, all this talk got me to get one going yesterday afternoon. Haven't checked on PhilBob yet this morning, but I doubt there's any activity yet.

I'm about to feed PhilBob again, but he was very happy yesterday morning. Note, there's nothing beer-related about PhilBob, he's just filtered water, unbleached flour & whatever natural yeast was on said flour/floating around in the air.

Cheers!

[wunderbier]

You need to leave it out on the counter. You're basically crashing it by putting it in the fridge. It won't become 'boozy'. With a sourdough starter, you will notice a small amount of greyish liquid floating on top. This is the alcohol, which won't mix with the starter, and it just gets poured off when you throw away half at feeding time (or just pour it off before doughing it).

How thick was your starter? If it's too thick you may have problems getting it going. I've long since stopped measuring ingredients for my sourdough starter since I've done it way too many times. I'm guessing it's about 50/50, but I'm looking for thin wallpaper paste or runny pancake batter.

Also what was your recipe? Have you baked it before without the Nottingham (I caught the 'usually use 20g bakers yeast', but I'm asking how familiar you are with the recipe) Where did the yeast come from? Fresh, starter, primary fermenter?

It was a biga / poolish type starter -- I wasn't going for sourdough here. The recipe is basically this, adjusted for my slightly smaller than US-standard oven. I've had great luck with overnight baker's yeast starters left in the fridge. They chug along just fine. Honestly, I've never left a starter out on the counter overnight to see what it does, maybe I'll try that next time with a back-up in the fridge. I've just heard that it can get beery if left too long, too warm. I've done this focaccia at least six times, and each time the results have been exactly the same (and delicious). The Nottingham was collected the previous day, after a three week fermentation and conditioning period.

Here's what I would do. Just like rehydrating a dry yeast pack, I'd toss some yeast in a separate container with a little water (& since it's for bread, I'd toss in about a teaspoon of sucrose - table sugar) & just leave it on the counter to become active while I'm getting everything else ready. When it's nice & happy, mix it with 2 cups of flour & add 1/4 - 1/3 cup of water a splash at a time until all flour has been absorbed. It's not *as* important with a flat bread, but do not overmix the flour. You'll break down the glutens & end up with a much harder, firmer bread instead of a fluffy, light loaf that most people would want to be making. Take your dough & knead gently on a lightly floured surface for maybe a minute or so. Light oil a large bowl & turn your dough ball until it's coated. Cover it with a warm, damp cloth & let it rise for 30 minutes or so. It should roughly double in size - let it go a little longer until it has. This is when I'd preheat the oven - I'd go for 475 or maybe a little more, but I live at 6000'. At sea-level, 450-460 would probably be sufficient. Degas the dough and and pat/knead (gently) into shape on an oiled cookie sheet. Brush with oil & sprinkle a 1/4 tsp of salt (I like to use Kosher for this step). Bake 10-20 minutes. 10 will be a softer, moist loaf, but if you like the outside a little darker & crunchier, leave it in for 20. I go for 20 minutes for a better crust/color, but when I pull it from the oven I allow it to cool on the cookie sheet for 60-90 seconds, then carefully remove and put it in a large ziplock or wrap air-tight with plastic wrap. This should soften the outer crust to perfection.

I do like the recommendation for waking it back up with some sucrose; I really should have thunk to done that. I'll give it a shot tomorrow -- for baking purposes this yeast slurry should be good for, what, seven days so long as it wakes up? I like slightly longer fermentation times on my breads though. It's totally a personal thing and I'm bound to swallow my own words one of these days, but I just haven't made yet a fast-ferment or quick bread that feels like it was worth the effort. Right now I'm at home most of the time, so it's no skin off my back to babysit a bread throughout the day and the work on both ends of the process is the same either way. (Kinda like beer and batch size, I suppose!)

[Ozwald]

It was a biga / poolish type starter -- I wasn't going for sourdough here.

If you're not going for a sourdough, leaving your yeast/sucrose/water mix on the counter for an hour or so should be plenty enough to get it awake & active. I really don't see any added bonus by doing it overnight in the fridge - you'll get about the same results. I didn't have a chance to look at your recipe (yet, i will a bit later), but it sounds like the big problem was the yeast was tired & inactive. Give it some food (the sucrose) and when it starts to get a little creamy, add it to your flour as stated in the recipe outline that I put down.

That's why I gave the outline as such. You can use it, or just borrow some steps to accent your process. I figured at least someone might benefit from all or part of it.

It sounds like you're on the same wavelength as me - for some further experimentation, try feeding the yeast with DME, dextrose & sucrose side-by-side. I'd be interested if there were noticeable differences in the final loaves.