Totally out of place Hard Cider question

[Biff]

Hi all,
Sorry -- no cider category here but I thought I'd dump the question out here and let people yell at me. I'm going to bottle an amber ale tomorrow and have a nice london ale yeast cake. I want to pour some apple cider ingredients onto that cake and let it run. The only issue is I'm sure that a decent amount of hops are interspersed with that yeast cake.

Do you think this hop trub will affect flavor/performance/anything of the cider fermentation?

Thanks

[Bugeater]

I'm curious about the answer too. I would suggest either trying it and letting us know the result so we can avoid doing that if it doesn't work....or....try washing the yeast with sterile water. The hop stuff should float and rinse away.

I guess if there was a significant amount I would either forego use of the yeast in a cider or wash it first. Let us know what you decide to do.

Wayne
Bugeater Brewing Company

(drinking a year old spiced cider)

[Kevin]

I haven't done exactly as you describe, but I have put a light ale on top of a yeast cake used for an IPA. Hop aromatics and flavor were transferred from the yeast into the beer, but not bitterness. Sort of like reusing a teabag, It seems. A weaker rendition of the original, but perceptable.

Washing the yeast gets rid of the hop bits and trub. The result is a cleaner and fresher yeast to use.

In general, I question the use of beer yeast for cider making because they tend to get sulfury. Like many lagers, this dissapates when the cider is poured, but I'd rather not have it there to begin with. I tend to go with wine yeasts for cider.

Kev.

[Biff]

I think I'll wash most of the cake and pitch that on top of a 5 gallon batch of cider. But I think I'll take a smaller amount of the cake and make a 1 gallon batch and see if I can see a difference!

I'm all about learning a bit.

I'll let you know how this turns out.

[bperetto]

I intentionally added a small amount (1/4oz?) of hops to one of my ciders.

I can't exactly recall why, but it tasted fine. I don't think whatever's left in the yeast cake will matter at all. If anything, it'll give the yeast some lipids to chew on.

[KC-Dave]

In one of the archive shows, Jamil (or some other smarty pants brewer) talks about ways to reuse yeast. You should look it up. Its a good excuse to listen to every show in order.

I believe that you can add RO water and shake up the cake. After it has settled down again, you can decant the yeast off of the trub. The yeast will be an off white layer.

[Mr. Big]

Why risk it? Do you make a lot of Cider and are just experimenting? I normally use a dry finishing wine yeast, such as dry mead, cider, or rudisheimer from Wyeast, as I like dry, not sweet.

[Biff]

Alright, well unfortunately I did not have a chance to do the test I wanted to. Yesterday was a VERY busy day. WRT the cider, I pitched right on top of the "previous" yeast cake w/ hop trub and all.

I racked the beer off of the yeast cake, poured off what little beer was still in the fermenter, then poured 5 gallons of juice (couldn't find apple cider!) right on top, and shook 'er up real good to get the yeast back in suspension.

Then aerated, and airlocked. It's bubblin' away! We'll see how it turns out.

BTW, the previous beer was a hoppy amber beer. Here's hopin not too much hop flavor/aroma get in.

I'll post to this thread once it's done w/ a tasting.

Thanks for the advice!