bohemian pilsner malt ?

[Daznz]

Hi ya all

Im brewing a classic american pilsner the recipe is for calling for American 2 row or 6 row malt I havent
used either of these malts . I have half a sack of bohemian pilsner malt so im keen to use this.
I just wonder how much different these malts are and would it be out of style using bohemian pilsner malt ?

Thanks Daza

[BDawg]

Most of the grain character of a CAP comes from the corn. How do you plan to hop it and which yeast strain are you going to use? I don't think there would be that much of a difference due to the base grain, as these other 3 factors will probably overpower any effects of the base malt differences.

[SacoDeToro]

Personally, I think the base grain makes a big difference in almost any beer, especially the lighter-bodied one. You could make a great CAP with any type of Continental pilsner malt, but you'd still have that mild melanoidin flavor in the background, which, while wonderful in a German pils, isn't ideal in a CAP. The CAPs I've enjoyed the most over the years have had American 2-row as the base, sometimes with a notable percentage of 6-row mixed in. So... if you're set on using the pils malt you have, you should still end up with a fine beer. But if you're willing to save the pils malt for now, my pick would be to use American 2-row for the base.

[BDawg]

Sorry Julian, but I still have to disagree with you in this case, my friend. Classic American Pilsners aren't supposed to be light, they are supposed to be rather substantial and exhibit distinct grainy character, medium body, rich creamy mouthfeel, and substantial hop presence (though, yes, rice versions are more neutral, but, IMO, rice just makes a beer bland so I would never favor a rice based CAP over an equally well brewed corn based CAP). The typically high protein levels of the Pilsner malts will be closer to the high protein content of 6 row. Also, you have it backwards about the the melanoidan levels. Pilsner malt SRM levels are actually typically LOWER than 2 row or 6 row malts, with typical SRM levels of 1.5-2 as opposed to 1.7-2 (2 row) and 1.8-2.4L for 6 row.

Just my opinion- I'll buy you a CAP in Oakland, Ok?

[Daznz]

Thanks for your help guys .

Ive orderd some wyeast 2001 urquell but this batch I will be using saflager S23. Hops with be Czech Saaz (dont flame me it was Jamils idea )

Ive got the corn sorted so is there any tips and tricks to doing a cereal mash before adding it to the main mash ?

Daza

[SacoDeToro]

Well, perhaps it's just my personal perception, but I've always smelled and tasted more melanoidin intensity in beers brewed with pilsner malt, especially Weyermann brand. I think that if I were to brew my German pils with American 2-row as the base, the malt character would not be as substantial as with a good German pils malt. Not to say that a German pils has a huge malt character. Quite the contrary, but IMO it is defined by having a very light crackery melanoidin character.

Also worth noting is that many people consider there to be two distinct versions of CAPs: pre and post-prohibition. The pre-prohibition being the more substantial one you're speaking of from both a malt and hop standpoint. The post being the lighter version. In either case, both should exhibit distinct American grain and hop qualities, IMO.

Are you certain that American 2-row has higher melanoidin levels than most pilsner malts? I didn't think that SRM was a necessarily a definitive indicator of melanoidin potential (or levels) for base malts.

[BDawg]

(I agree whole heartedly that a Bohemian pils is best done with pilsner malt.)

Melanoidans come from kilning. They are the result of the Malliard reaction, so SRM is pretty much directly correlated.

http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/med/resea ... lanoidins/


HTH-

[SacoDeToro]

I understand that melanoidins are formed during kilning, but it was also my understanding they are also formed during the boil. Further, new research suggests that Malliard reactions take place in finished beer even at room temperature. This is especially the case with lighter beers.

Now perhaps this is more related to cultivar than the malting process, but I've yet to use a pilsner, Munich, or Vienna malt made from American 2-row that was a rich as its European counterpart. IMO, Great Western Munich doesn't create a beer that's a melanoidin-rich as, say, Weyermann Munich. Both are 8-10 Lovibond. I've made weizenbocks with both and the Weyermann versions have always come out richer. But that's not to say differences in kilning processes between maltsters and seemingly equivalent malts (Munich vs. Munich, pils vs. pils) don't affect what I've outlined either.