Charlie P's Grand Cru

[polski]

Question for the peeps - I am going to brew a beer recipe/style that i know little to nothing about. The recipe is the Grand Cru from Chalie P's book (4th edition) and i'm wondering if there are any commercial examples i should try before i begin or if anyone has any tips/advice for brewing this style.

I'll be doing extract and bottle conditioning.

thanks.

[Speyedr]

Below is from the BJCP Beer Styles Guide. Go to BJCP.ORG to download a copy. Commercial examples at the bottom:

17B. Flanders Red Ale
Aroma: Complex fruitiness with complementary malt. Fruitiness is
high, and reminiscent of black cherries, oranges, plums or red currants.
There is often some vanilla and/or chocolate notes. Spicy phenols can
be present in low amounts for complexity. The sour, acidic aroma
ranges from complementary to intense. No hop aroma. Diacetyl is
perceived only in very minor quantities, if at all, as a complementary
aroma.
Appearance: Deep red, burgundy to reddish-brown in color. Good
clarity. Average to good head retention.
Flavor: Intense fruitiness commonly includes plum, orange, black
cherry or red currant flavors. A mild vanilla and/or chocolate character
is often present. Spicy phenols can be present in low amounts for
complexity. Sour, acidic character ranges from complementary to
intense. Rich, sweet flavors range from complementary to prominent.
Generally as the sour character increases, the sweet character blends to
more of a background flavor (and vice versa). No hop flavor.
Restrained hop bitterness. An acidic, tannic bitterness is often present
in low to moderate amounts, and adds a red wine-like character.
Diacetyl is perceived only in very minor quantities, if at all, as a
complementary flavor.
Mouthfeel: Medium bodied. Low to medium carbonation. Low to
medium astringency, like a well-aged red wine, often with a prickly
acidity. Deceivingly light and crisp on the palate although a somewhat
sweet finish is not uncommon.
Overall Impression: A complex, sour, red wine-like Belgian-style ale.
History: The indigenous beer of West Flanders, typified by the
products of the Rodenbach brewery, established in 1820 in West
Flanders but reflective of earlier brewing traditions. The beer is aged
for up to two years, often in huge oaken barrels which contain the
resident bacteria necessary to sour the beer. It was once common in
Belgium and England to blend old beer with young to balance the
sourness and acidity found in aged beer. While blending of batches for
consistency is now common among larger breweries, this type of
blending is a fading art.
Comments: Long aging and blending of young and well-aged beer
often occurs, adding to the smoothness and complexity, though the
aged product is sometimes released as a connoisseur’s beer. Known as
the Burgundy of Belgium, it is more wine-like than any other beer
style. The reddish color is a product of the malt although an extended,
less-than-rolling portion of the boil may help add an attractive
Burgundy hue. Aging will also darken the beer. The Flanders red is
more acetic and the fruity flavors more reminiscent of a red wine than
an Oud Bruin.
Ingredients: A base of Vienna and/or Munich malts and a small
amount of Special B are used with up to 20% flaked corn or corn grits.
Low alpha acid continental or British hops are commonly used (avoid
high alpha or distinctive American hops). Saccharomyces,
Lactobacillus and Brettanomyces (and acetobacters) contribute to the
fermentation and eventual flavor.
Vital Statistics: OG: 1.046 – 1.054
IBUs: 15 – 25 FG: 1.008 – 1.016
SRM: 10 – 16 ABV: 5 – 5.5%
Commercial Examples: Rodenbach Klassiek, Rodenbach Grand Cru,
Bellegems Bruin, Duchesse de Bourgogne, New Belgium La Folie,
Petrus Oud Bruin, Southampton Publick House Flanders Red Ale,
Verhaege Vichtenaar

[Speyedr]

Or it could be:

18E. Belgian Dark Strong Ale
Aroma: Complex, with a rich malty sweetness, significant esters and
alcohol, and an optional light to moderate spiciness. The malt is rich
and strong, and can have a Munich-type quality with an occasional
caramel, toast and/or bready aroma. The fruity esters are strong to
moderately low, and can contain raisin, plum, dried cherry, fig or prune
notes. Spicy phenols may be present, but usually have a peppery
quality not clove-like. Alcohols are soft, spicy, perfumy and/or roselike,
and are low to moderate in intensity. Hops are not usually present
(but a very low noble hop aroma is acceptable). No diacetyl. No
dark/roast malt aroma. No hot alcohols or solventy aromas. No
recognizable spice additions.
Appearance: Deep amber to deep coppery-brown in color (“dark” in
this context implies “more deeply colored than golden”). Huge, dense,
moussy, persistent cream- to light tan-colored head. Can be clear to
somewhat hazy.
Flavor: Similar to aroma (same malt, ester, phenol, alcohol, hop and
spice comments apply to flavor as well). Moderately malty or sweet on
palate. Finish is variable depending on interpretation (authentic
Trappist versions are moderately dry to dry, Abbey versions can be
medium-dry to sweet). Low bitterness for a beer of this strength;
alcohol provides some of the balance to the malt. Sweeter and more
full-bodied beers will have a higher bitterness level to balance. Almost
all versions are malty in the balance, although a few are lightly bitter.
The complex and varied flavors should blend smoothly and
harmoniously.
Mouthfeel: High carbonation but no carbonic acid “bite.” Smooth but
noticeable alcohol warmth. Body can be variable depending on
interpretation (authentic Trappist versions tend to be medium-light to
medium, while Abbey-style beers can be quite full and creamy).
Overall Impression: A dark, very rich, complex, very strong Belgian
ale. Complex, rich, smooth and dangerous.
History: Most versions are unique in character reflecting
characteristics of individual breweries.
Comments: Authentic Trappist versions tend to be drier than Abbey
versions, which can be rather sweet and full-bodied. Higher bitterness
is allowable in Abbey-style beers with a higher FG. Barleywine-type
beers (e.g., Scaldis/Bush, La Trappe Quadrupel, Weyerbacher QUAD)
and Spiced/Christmas-type beers (e.g., N’ice Chouffe, Affligem Nöel)
should be entered in the Belgian Specialty category, not this category.
Ingredients: Belgian yeast strains prone to production of higher
alcohols, esters, and sometimes phenolics are commonly used. Soft
water. Complex grain bill: Belgian pils or pale base malt, Munich-type
malts for maltiness, other Belgian specialty grains for character. Candi
sugar to lighten body and to add color and flavor (if dark candi is used).
Noble-type, English-type or Styrian Goldings hops commonly used.
Spices generally not used; if used, keep subtle and in the background.
Avoid US/UK crystal type malts (these provide the wrong type of
sweetness).
Vital Statistics: OG: 1.075 – 1.110+
IBUs: 15 – 25+ FG: 1.010 – 1.024
SRM: 12 – 20 ABV: 8 – 12%+
Commercial Examples: Rochefort 10 (blue cap), Westvleteren 12
(yellow cap), Chimay Grande Reserve (Blue), Rochefort 8 (green cap),
St. Bernardus Abt 12, Gouden Carolus Grand Cru of the Emperor,
Abbaye des Rocs Grand Cru, Gulden Draak, Kasteelbier Bière du
Chateau Donker

[Sven]

A quick check on the internet yeilds...

Minneapolis Town Hall Brewery Grand Cru
Minneapolis Town Hall Brewery Barrel Aged Grand Cru

A quick phone call will tell you if they are still flowing.

[jamilz]

One of the best "Grand Cru" beers in the US is from AleSmith in San Diego. If you can get it, buy as much as you can get your hands on. If you can't get it, buy a plane ticket to San Diego. You won't be disappointed.

[polski]

I've been trying to talk the wife into a little trip out to Cali later this summer; little does she know that my interest isn't in the beautiful weather but rather the tasty brews available.

[Lars]

The weather is over rated... currently just a hair over 100f here in lovely O.C.. However the beer is cold and not over rated!

[hejl]

I've been trying to talk the wife into a little trip out to Cali later this summer; little does she know that my interest isn't in the beautiful weather but rather the tasty brews available.

Yeah coming out to Cali later in the summer is definitely not a good idea for the weather. From Minnesota I'd recommend coming in December-March sometime.

Lars is right though, the beer will be good whenever.