Black saison recipe help

[MadsH]

Going to brew a black saison modelled after the info I could find on Pizza Ports SPF 8. I never actually tasted it (but it sure sounds tasty), so it is not meant to be a perfect clone just to be tasty (and black!). However, I am new to formulating my own recipes, so I hope for some useful comments. At the moment the recipe I am thinking of is the following:

For 20 L (approx. 5.2 gallons)
Anticipated OG: 1.082, Anticipated SRM: 26.0, Anticipated IBU: 59.1

74.6 % Pilsner (6.00 kg.)
3.0 % Flaked Barley (0.24 kg.)
3.0 % Melanoiden (0.24 kg.)
3.0 % CaraWheat (0.24 kg.)
4.5 % Special B Malt (0.36 kg.)
1.0 % Carafa Special Type II (0.08 kg.)
1.0 % Roasted Wheat (0.08 kg.)
10.0 % Beet Sugar (0.80 kg.)
46.0 IBU Centennial @ 60 min. (1½ oz.)
13.1 IBU Goldings - E.K. @ 30 min. (1½ oz.)
14 g. (½ oz.) Czech Saaz @ 0 min.
Peel of 1 orange - 2 min. 40 g (1½ oz.)
Fresh rosemary - 2 min. 120 g (4 oz.)
Raisins - 2 min.

Primary yeast: WLP565 Belgian Saison I and WLP500 Trappist
Secondary yeast: WLP650 Brett. brux.

I expect to mash at 148 and hope to reach a FG of 1.008-1.010

Guess my main concerns are whether there are enough of the roasted wheat and carafe special (I really like black), if the hopping schedule is ok, whether there are enough orange peel and rosemary and if I should try it without the brett first (so pretty much everything…).

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

[Mylo]

I really like black

then you won't go back.

Seriously - 4 oz of rosemary? That sounds like a shit load, and to me also sounds like it would clash with the slight roastiness. I don't know about the raisins, either. To me it looks like too many different things going on - with the citrusy centennial hops, and the roast, and the fruit and spices, and the brett. It might be to muddy with clashing flavors. I would simplify - and then maybe pitch the brett in only one of the carboys. That way you can compare.


Mylo

[rhino777]

Check Zymurgy from a couple months back...tons of Saison recipes.

[BDawg]

I'd drop the Special B and add more Carafa Special 2. This will come out more like a Dubbel than a Saison if you have Special B in it.
I'd also agree with Mylo and drop the Centennial. That will give too much American hop character to it. Even though it will be used as a bittering addition, it will still yield noticeable contributions to the flavor. I'd use either EKG, Styrian Goldings, Fuggles, or Hallertau in its place.
I'd use the peel of 2 (not 1) oranges, drop the rosemary altogether and use about 2 grams of Grains of Paradise instead.
I'd drop the flaked barley too. You want a dry beer when making a Saison. That's gonna make it silky and more more stout-like. Not really something I look for in a Saison.
Finally, I'd lower the IBUs to about 40. That gives about a .5 BU:GU ratio, which I think is closer to what you want here.

My .02-

HTH-

[MadsH]

Thanks for the input.

I dropped the flaked barley and added a little more Pilsner malt. Replaced the Centennial with EKG and cut the IBU’s to reach a IBU/OG ratio of 0.5. Cut the amount of fresh rosemary and upped the fresh orange peel. Dropped the raisins and the Brett. (that may change when time for secondary comes closer though). The updated recipe is:

For 20 L (approx. 5.2 gallons)
Anticipated OG: 1.082, Anticipated SRM: 26.0, Anticipated IBU: 40.7

77.5 % Pilsner (6.20 kg.)
4.5 % Special B Malt (0.36 kg.)
3.0 % CaraWheat (0.24 kg.)
3.0 % Melanoiden (0.24 kg.)
1.0 % Carafa Special Type II (0.08 kg.)
1.0 % Roasted Wheat (0.08 kg.)
10.0 % Beet Sugar (0.80 kg.)
1.5 oz. (27.0 IBU) Goldings - E.K. @ 60 min.
1.5 oz. (13.7 IBU) Goldings - E.K. @ 30 min.
0.5 oz. Czech Saaz @ 0 min.
1.4 oz. (40 g.) fresh orange peel @ 0 min.
0.7 oz. (20 g.) fresh rosemary @ 0 min.

Primary yeast: WLP565 Belgian Saison I
Secondary yeast: WLP500 Trappist

It will be brewed as soon as the local homebrew shop has WLP565 back on the shelves (hopefully within a couple of weeks).

MadsH