Version 2.0 of Palmer's Residual Alkalinity Spreadsheets

[TimmyR]

Tim...I'd post it here or post a link to it here. This thread is pretty active...no harm in double-posting.

[TimCA]

I don't know if this is the correct place for this. It is a water question but the "excel chart thread" is in the all grain section.. .
Any how, I have water for pale beers:
Source Water
Calcium (ppm)14
Magnesium (ppm) 4
Alkalinity as CaCO3 49
Sodium 8(ppm)
Chloride (ppm)1
Sulfate (ppm)8
Water pH 6.1
(Effective Hardness) 12
Residual Alkalinity as CaCO3 37
Est. SRM (Low)8
Est. SRM (High)13
Chloride to Sulfate Ratio Very bitter
Per the excel chart.
I am brewing JZ's Oatmeal Stout SRM 36 ish.
I CAN"T GET THERE FROM HERE!!!
It seams that no mater what I input to try to get the correct RA sets one or more of the resulting #'s are out of whack i.e. Na is +150ppm. or the Na to Cl ratio is bitter not malty (stout) Can any one help me, I am shooting for a RA of @325 with the others in line for this style. Thanks for any help, information or education you can provide.
Thanks
Tim

[TimCA]

Beter yet, If I plug in a SRM of 38, I get a recomended RA of 341 to 400. I'm finding that I need to add a SH*% load of salts to get the "proper" 341 to 400 RA. Is this corect what RA should I target for a stout.
Tim

[TimmyR]

Tim - does this help? This is a thread with my similar question and a great response from ajdelange.

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16969

[ajdelange]

Plus the extensive discussion at viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17060.

I'd guess the "correct" range of RA for stouts is something like 0 - 400 based on the diversity of waters with which stouts are brewed all over the world (see Lewis's book). My stouts come in between 70 and 80 SRM and are brewed with untreated water with an RA of about 50.

[TimmyR]

Thanks AJ..my porter tastes great and fermented out at about 82% apparent attenuation...best I've ever seen with WLP001.

You should talk to J and do another water show with John Palmer and Jamil.

[KenLenard]

Wow, great thread. I know this thread has been quiet for awhile, but I just got into this spreadsheet and I am doing some fine tuning to my water. I will admit right now that water chemistry is not my thing. As a result, I am always looking for some type of simple magic bullet which I know does not really apply with this topic. But here's my situation. I make relatively "balanced" and often "malty" all-grain beer. When I enter my water numbers into JP's sheet and make no dilutions or salt additions, my chloride-to-sulfate ratio shows "very malty". My water numbers, as given to me by the fine people at Ward Labs go like this:

pH: 6.6
Total dissolved solids (TDS): 264
Sodium: 13
Potassium: 2
Calcium: 34
Magnesium: 12
Total Hardness: 135
Nitrate, No3-N: 0.4
Sulfate, SO4-S: 9
Chloride: 21
Carbonate, CO3: <1
Bicarbonate, HCO3: 138
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3: 113

With my recipes, the malt-to-hop ratios are already on the malty side. My question is whether or not my water profile compounds this maltiness and whether I need to add something like Magnesium sulfate (epsom salt) or gyspum to my mash. When I make something like a pale ale or amber ale, I'll often use anywhere from 2-4 grams of gypsum for a noticeably "spiky" difference. But I have spoken to a number of people who say that you don't necessarily want to do that same thing for something like a pilsner, amber lager, helles, cream ale, etc. I just made one of my maltier pale ales (7¼ lbs pale malt, 1 lbs C60°L, 12 oz wheat and 1 oz Mt. Hood 5.2% for 60 minutes, WLP001) and decided to adjust my chloride-to-sulfate ratio with about 2 gms of epsom salt. That beer is in primary and I'll know the results soon enough. Does adding some amount of gypsum or epsom salt seem reasonable for adding a bit of "crispness" to beers that seem to be lacking it? Are there styles out there where gyspum should never be used for this purpose? Thanks guys, great discussion.

[TimmyR]

This is the place to post that question...I'd say tha in my experience, the spreadsheet rings true for most beers up to SRMs for my American Brown, but there are still exceptions. For example, I've been told to avoid gypsum in conjunction with noble hops. In any case, I have tweaked my water by diluting and adding salts in accordance with the spreadsheet and the "Waterganza" along with AJ Delange's advice and had great results. Hope that helps...hopefully someone who KNOWS water (like John P, Tasty, JZ or AJ) will weigh in.

Cheers,