Ranching yeast from a bottle - time line

[Chunk]

I'm planning on using yeast from a bottle in a future batch of beer. The bottle is a reliable source and I know the success rate isn't 100%, so don't worry about any of that. My questions are more around timing and amount.

I plan to pitch the slurry from the (chilled) bottle into 400ml of 1030 wort (that's been boiled for 10 mins). I will leave this until fermentation is completed (7 - 10 days). I will then decant the liquid from the yeast slurry and pitch the slurry into 1.5 litres of 1030 wort. Leave the 1.5 litre mixture for 24 hours and then pitch into my batch.

I'll look for signs throughout the process that the yeast is doing what it should. The 1.5 litres is based on calculating via Mr Malty the amount required for a 20 litre batch of beer (at 1048).

Before I go an make a mistake ... does this approach sound sensible/correct?

How long could I sensibly leave the 400ml starter for before I pitch into the 1.5 litres? If my brewday moves, I might need to delay using the yeast. I'm assuming that (as with a normal brew) you can leave it on the yeast for 2 weeks without any negative impact.

Thanks.

[Nyakavt]

I've done this with commercial beer several times. With a single bottle of something like Sierra Nevada or Bell's, I like to do 50, 200, 500, and 2000 mL steps to get enough yeast for an average ale. The first one can take a few days if the yeast is fairly old, and the subsequent ones take 24 hours or less (based on krausen activity). If you are thinking of doing this for homebrew, in theory you will be selecting the least flocculant yeast which could give you problems with clarity if done over several generations. I haven't tried it with homebrew so I can't say.

Check your slurry volume after growing up the yeast (may want to do this ahead of time to enable you to grow additional yeast if needed). Compare to the 'slurry' tab from the mr. malty calculator. I don't think 400 mL -> 1.5L will get you enough yeast for a batch, but check for yourself. You are ok to pitch the 400 mL into the 1.5L after you have reached high krausen (really foamy, try shaking it to release more foam), or after the gravity has started to drop significantly.

[brewcrew]

What if you are trying to grow yeast from a sour beer? Is it the same? Can you chill and decant with Brett?

[Chunk]

I'm planning on doing it from a commercial bottle of Summer Lightning. I don't want to do so many steps because it takes time, costs money and increases the chance of infection. I also don't need 2l of starter. If I go with the two steps I've planned, will I see any impact in my beer?

I plan to pitch the 1 litre into the batch at high krausen but dont want to pitch the smaller starter into the 1 litre at high krausen because i dont know when ill need the yeast. I figure if I let the smaller starter ferment out fully, ive got a 7 day grace period in which I can pitch to the 1L stater at any point.

If im pitching the whole litre into the batch and not the resultant slurry, am I right to use the liquid yeast tab on mr malty?

Im attempting to culture some wild yeast, but thats something different ... not this.

[CaribouBill]

What if you are trying to grow yeast from a sour beer? Is it the same? Can you chill and decant with Brett?

It is the same....I have done it with great success from Orval more than once.

I have also cultured Cantillon dregs for use in secondary, though I do not really know how much of the complexity came from the Cantillon and how much came from the commercial bugs.

[Elbone]

If I go with the two steps I've planned, will I see any impact in my beer?

Starting with the tiny amount of yeast in a single bottle, you'll need to start with small steps up as suggested by Nyakavt above. I'd be more worried about infection from pitching so little yeast in half a liter of wort- not enough to out-compete the nasties, than from an extra step or two. At the very least, add a 50ml step. Then 400ml, then 1L .

[DBear]

+1 for multi-steps.

For a 1.060 blonde using Ommegang Witte:
1) pitched dregs in 400ml @ 1.025 with pinch of yeast nutrient for three days
2)Pitched 400ml into 800ml @ 1.030 with pinch of yeast nutrient for 24 hours
3)Decanted off as much as I could (warm) and pitched into 1500ml @ 1.040 with pinch of yeast nutrient and at 18hrs pitched into brew.

No particular reason for the steps, more just by the size of the yeast slug. Great ferment and beer placed in a comp.

[Chunk]

Noted about the multi steps, I'll take this into account and do three steps from bottle to batch.

DBear: Your approach seems to go against all the advice though. From bottle into 400ml is what I was planning but others have said thats too large a first step. You then seem to pitch just the slurry into a bath of wort, even though the primary ferment in the starter seems not to have finished.

Hmm.