Re: When does a recipe become yours?

Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:16 am

thatguy314 wrote:My house IPA uses Munich, Honey Malt, and 2-row. I used these, because I liekd the malt bill on flower power and I used those malts til I hit the right SRM (they've since removed the Munich but that's besides the poitn). Just because I was targetting a similar malt bill doesn't mean it's someone else's recipe.

Similarly, I made an Imperial Stout just off the top of my head. I then went into BCS and saw that it was virtually identical to Jamil's (but C80 instead of Caramunich, a few differnces in yeast and mash temp). But the point remains, I still came up with it. I don't doubt that my way of thinking about recipes has been heavily affected by listening to the Jamil show, but he didn't think the recipe up for me.

But to answer the original question? I think it's when you make thoughtful choices about ingredients that go beyond tweaking an existing recipe. Or you publish them in a copyrighted book. Both definitions work.


The answer to the question is "Who cares?" Brewing beer is about controlling variables. The recipe is but one variable. You brew it, it's yours. As someone pointed out, recipes aren't beer and recipes are rarely complete - they usually don't contain important specifics such as water chemistry profiles, specific brands/types of malt, all of which can make huge differences in the finished beer.

BTW, you CANNOT copyright a recipe. Books of recipes are copyrighted as a whole, but you can freely distribute individual recipes legally.

Michael
Datamike
 
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Re: When does a recipe become yours?

Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:43 am

Blunt wrote:I'm a relativly young brewer (only two years)


Damn, the chicks are gonna love you by the time you get into Pre-school!

:crazybitch: :P :lol:

+1 to the above, though I think you need to tweak something in the ingredients list. Ordering the recipe out of a book from the HBS (where) you don't change anything (other than hop amounts to account for AA levels or substitute varieties due to availability) doesn't make it your recipe, IMO. On the other hand, radical changes like using a decoction where there was none, or skipping the decoction and adding melanoidan malt, does count.

my .02
-B'Dawg
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BDawg
 
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Re: When does a recipe become yours?

Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:41 am

Datamike wrote:
thatguy314 wrote:My house IPA uses Munich, Honey Malt, and 2-row. I used these, because I liekd the malt bill on flower power and I used those malts til I hit the right SRM (they've since removed the Munich but that's besides the poitn). Just because I was targetting a similar malt bill doesn't mean it's someone else's recipe.

Similarly, I made an Imperial Stout just off the top of my head. I then went into BCS and saw that it was virtually identical to Jamil's (but C80 instead of Caramunich, a few differnces in yeast and mash temp). But the point remains, I still came up with it. I don't doubt that my way of thinking about recipes has been heavily affected by listening to the Jamil show, but he didn't think the recipe up for me.

But to answer the original question? I think it's when you make thoughtful choices about ingredients that go beyond tweaking an existing recipe. Or you publish them in a copyrighted book. Both definitions work.


The answer to the question is "Who cares?" Brewing beer is about controlling variables. The recipe is but one variable. You brew it, it's yours. As someone pointed out, recipes aren't beer and recipes are rarely complete - they usually don't contain important specifics such as water chemistry profiles, specific brands/types of malt, all of which can make huge differences in the finished beer.

BTW, you CANNOT copyright a recipe. Books of recipes are copyrighted as a whole, but you can freely distribute individual recipes legally.

Michael


I have a minor quibble about the last sentence. While you can distribute a recipe from Emeril freely, to pass it off as your own on a website is a little sneaky. Whenever I post a recipe on my blog, I make sure to let people know where I got it, if I can. That's why I call them Bugeaters Rye Cream Ale, or Bugeaters Oatmeal Raisin Cookie Amber, or CYBI Dead Guy, and not Dirk's Rye Cream, Dirk's Oatmeal Raisin Cookie Amber, Dirk's Dead Guy, etc. (I do, however, call my version of Tasty APA "Dirktastic". Tasty's Lawyers can contact me at any time.) It's just common courtesy.
"Mash, I made you my bitch!" -Tasty
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Dirk McLargeHuge
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Re: When does a recipe become yours?

Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:45 am

I would say that the recipe is "yours" once you've modified the original recipe enough to give the creator/publisher of the base recipe a glass of the beer and look them in the eye and tell them that it is yours. If I only made slight modifications, I would credit the "original" brewer. (i.e. - I wouldn't make a slight malt/hop variation to Janet's Brown and tell Tasty that the recipe was mine)

On the other hand, I really don't care much. As people have noted above, the process is just as important as the recipe. My "house" beer for the last ~18 month has been the Green Flash WCIPA clone from CYBI, I have not strayed from the recommended recipe/process. Most everyone loves it. The amount of credit that I give the BN for the recipe depends on the on how interested the beer drinker is. I don't bother to explain much to the average beer drinker, because they don't care about the details (my dad could care less where the recipe came from, he likes it and he knows that I made it). Too my beer loving friends, I tell them that it is a clone of Green Flash WCIPA. And I tell my home brewing friends that I got the recipe from CYBI and that they should check out the BN podcasts, if they are not already a fan.

:jnj
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trouble brewin
 
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Re: When does a recipe become yours?

Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:19 pm

I love this thread. I was just discussing naming the beers in my carboys with my buddy, and then thought, "well... they're based off a recipe... are they mine to name?" But I used Dark Chocolate malt instead of Chocolate, and used a higher Crystal than the recipe. The overflow into the airlock is also unique on my part :D I think I would have reserves on naming something that I buy as a kit (for example, my first brew was the Diamond knot IPA clone kit, made by Diamond knot). Luckily, I messed that one up and it tasted nothing like it - and everyone I had taste test it chose mine as the better (!!! :) ). I didn't name that though because I only ended up with ~3 gal and it was gone before I could!
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c0dy
 
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Re: When does a recipe become yours?

Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:11 pm

Simple:

1) "I learned this from Jamil"
2) "I saw some guy do this"
3) "Look at what I know"

Sometimes a jackhole will complete these three steps of ownership in one single day!

Really tho, I agree with the idea that your brewhouse + procedure are the key of ownership of the recipe...Providing that you are consistently making a unique (from the original) brew.
LeSinge
 
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Re: When does a recipe become yours?

Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:56 am

I agree that your process and local ingredients make the beer your own.

But if I just change Jamil's Doppelbock recipe to include Joe White Munich malt and Wyeast 2308 because I can't get German Munich and White Labs yeast, then I can't go and call it my recipe. Even though the beer will most definitely be mine.

And I think that is the distinction the OP is trying to make.

IMO any deviation from the recipe eg. If I don't like Centennial and substitute Galaxy hops in its place, then I now have Melina's Brown Ale instead of Janet's. But if I was talking to fans of the BN, then I'd probably say this is my Brown Ale based on Janet's Brown but I used Galaxy hops instead of Centennial.
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whoateallthepies
 
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Re: When does a recipe become yours?

Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:23 am

whoateallthepies wrote:I agree that your process and local ingredients make the beer your own.

But if I just change Jamil's Doppelbock recipe to include Joe White Munich malt and Wyeast 2308 because I can't get German Munich and White Labs yeast, then I can't go and call it my recipe. Even though the beer will most definitely be mine.

And I think that is the distinction the OP is trying to make.

IMO any deviation from the recipe eg. If I don't like Centennial and substitute Galaxy hops in its place, then I now have Melina's Brown Ale instead of Janet's. But if I was talking to fans of the BN, then I'd probably say this is my Brown Ale based on Janet's Brown but I used Galaxy hops instead of Centennial.

Exactly.
"Mash, I made you my bitch!" -Tasty
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Dirk McLargeHuge
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