need some feed back on this apa

[LC123]

I don't think you have enough maltiness to back up this level of hoppiness. The difference between a high gravity APA and a low gravity IPA is that APAs are somewhat less bitter (though the upper/lower IBUs are close) but more importantly, the balance is less bitter and sweeter. To support this level of hop flavor you need to balance it. I'd say the mellanoidin is good, but you need to at least double the crystal.

I did an APA that I won a few awards for that was similar (1.060, 2 row with 2#C40, 1#Munich, 1# Biscuit, 1# wheat). It's important for it to be malty

On the other hand, you look to be brewing a more austere style of APA. If that's the case, tone down the hops.

I disagree completely. The melanoidin will give him plenty of maltiness. I think his crystal malt was fine. I make all of my IPAs and APAs with zero crystal malt....I use melanoidin to give me the color and maltiness I want with none of the sweetness that I feel clashes with american hops. I wont tell him to not use crystal, but I think a half pound per 5 gals, especially on top of the melanoidin which is generally around 20L anyway is more than enough.

I just got a gold for an APA I made with 70% pils and 30% Vienna. Super light yet by controlling mash temp, you can still get enough malt backbone and body to stand up to the hops. You dont need a bunch of fillers to get you there. I hate that people feel like they have to use crystal malt to achieve a malty character

[Weenie Boy]

I disagree completely. The melanoidin will give him plenty of maltiness. I think his crystal malt was fine. I make all of my IPAs and APAs with zero crystal malt....I use melanoidin to give me the color and maltiness I want with none of the sweetness that I feel clashes with american hops. I wont tell him to not use crystal, but I think a half pound per 5 gals, especially on top of the melanoidin which is generally around 20L anyway is more than enough.

I just got a gold for an APA I made with 70% pils and 30% Vienna. Super light yet by controlling mash temp, you can still get enough malt backbone and body to stand up to the hops. You dont need a bunch of fillers to get you there. I hate that people feel like they have to use crystal malt to achieve a malty character

I think that we are talking about a subjective issue here (taste). I have had some great IPAs and APAs made with crystal malts and I prefer to brew with them when making this style. I am glad you have had success with you award winning APA but there is more than one way to "skin a cat (JP)".

My .02 worth.

Weenie Boy

[thatguy314]

You dont need a bunch of fillers to get you there. I hate that people feel like they have to use crystal malt to achieve a malty character

I misread the recipe. I didn't see the melanoidin. It looked to me like 2-row and a 1# of crystal, which is certainly not enough maltiness to make a good APA, but could work for an austere IPA. If you looked at the recipe I mentioned it had a similar amount of character malt to this.

I agree that the best malt bills are the simplest ones that can achieve the desired charater.

However from what you said, it doesn't look like you disagree completely. You disagree that he needs more crystal malt, you agree that you need a firm maltiness, which was my main point.

Either way, most good APA recipes I've seen, including your own, have about 15+% character malt added to a 2-row base. That was the point I was trying to make.

[LC123]

I disagree completely. The melanoidin will give him plenty of maltiness. I think his crystal malt was fine. I make all of my IPAs and APAs with zero crystal malt....I use melanoidin to give me the color and maltiness I want with none of the sweetness that I feel clashes with american hops. I wont tell him to not use crystal, but I think a half pound per 5 gals, especially on top of the melanoidin which is generally around 20L anyway is more than enough.

I just got a gold for an APA I made with 70% pils and 30% Vienna. Super light yet by controlling mash temp, you can still get enough malt backbone and body to stand up to the hops. You dont need a bunch of fillers to get you there. I hate that people feel like they have to use crystal malt to achieve a malty character

I think that we are talking about a subjective issue here (taste). I have had some great IPAs and APAs made with crystal malts and I prefer to brew with them when making this style. I am glad you have had success with you award winning APA but there is more than one way to "skin a cat (JP)".

My .02 worth.

Weenie Boy

exactly...which is why i didnt tell him to not use crystal...i said that he had enough already along with the melanoidin. Just because I dont use crystal doesnt mean I tell others not to. I just warn against overuse. Oh, and my comment on my gold wasnt to toot my own horn, it was really just to put out there that like you said, there is more than one way to skin a cat. seems like the rule of thumb for APAs is you "must" use crystal and many people overuse it. Im just happy to see someone else trying the melanoidin route. Ive been very happy since I have and many people have tried to tell me Im wrong because it isnt "right to style" without tasting my beers. Truth be told, thats fine by me because its me developing my own style and not doing what someone else tells me to. If everyone did that, we wouldnt have all of the styles and variations we have today