Deschutes Obsidian Stout : Can You Brew It (05/25)

[TheDarkSide]

Ok...but should we do a D-Rest?

[nathanm]

What are we not saying/including in the show that is making it difficult to get the recipe?

The confusion, I think, came from (other than the names being close) the brewer stating that there are "copious amounts" - 8.5% or more of "Black Barley" and about 1% of Roasted Barley.
(Minute 13:50) and then you state that there is 1.43lbs of Black Barley Malt. (minute 35:00)

Briess description says "Don't confuse unmalted Roasted Barley with Black Malt. Roasted Barley and Black Barley are not malted."

And the fact that stouts seem to be made with Black Barley (unmalted) in general (from what I read in Ray Daniels' book)

[mgo737]

Jamil, why do you conclude that we have not listened to the show? I wonder, have you gone back and listened to the show from start to finish? I suspect if you did, you would realize that recipe information is not always clear or consistent in this show or other shows for that matter (i.e. Rogue Dead Guy). They are, without a doubt, awesome and informative shows... that are occasionally unclear.

[jamilz]

Not angry, just trying to figure out how to better present the information so we don't end up with people wondering what to use to clone the beer.

I thought when I used the word malt, that it made it pretty clear that we're talking about the malted kind. I guess we need to take a lot more time on giving the ingredients, go slower, etc.

The reason I'm confused and thinking maybe folks aren't listening to the podcast is that we never really seemed to have this problem with all the style shows. Not sure if we're doing something different now or maybe it is a different audience all of a sudden.

In either case this isn't the listener's problem. This is our problem and we need to present the information differently on the show to solve it. Just need to figure out how.

[BDawg]

The confusion in this case is DEFINITELY the use of "Black" vs "Roasted" Barley.
We've always heard either "Black Patent Malt" or "Roasted Barley". The show said "Black Barley". We are all window lickers here JZ. Ya gotta spell these things out clearly.

Similar confusion can reign over the use of "Special Roast" (the ~50L kind), vs "Special B" (as in a Dubbel) as well as Carafa Special (x) vs Carafa (x).

I'm sure others can come up with other easily confused examples.

[nathanm]

I can't think of any of the other shows where I was confused. And, I was not confused really, i just listened to what the brewer said, and in all honesty, I had no idea there was a difference between Black Malt and Black Barley, so when I heard you say "Black Barley Malt"...the "malt" part went over my head as I double checked. I'm used to "black patent malt" So yes, there is a problem with your listeners in not being totally educated. The shows are super educational though. Thanks! I don't think you have to change anything except clarify when some malt combo comes up like that.

[jamilz]

It is never a listener problem. We may never be able to accommodate every listener, but that is our problem, not the listener. Keep in mind that the majority of listeners will never visit the forum and the only thing they have is the podcast for information. We've got to make sure it includes everything needed.

I tried to over emphasize certain things about the recipe in the last couple shows. I think that might help. Also, we need to go a little slower in reading the recipe and we can't say for example, "CaraMunich." We've got to say what type, color, maltster if appropriate, etc. I think that will help quite a bit.

[nathanm]

Yes, a few more seconds/minutes here and there might help when going over the recipe. e.g I was at my LHBS yesterday looking for "caramunich" only to be found staring at the grain bins, looking at one that said Belgian Crystal 60L/70L. After I stared at it a bit longer, I noticed in small print on the tag "caramunich", (now I know) but some might not be so lucky, or have an experienced brewer running the shop who can assist them. So I suppose CYBI might also have to be slightly educational once in a while when something like that comes up.

Keep up the good work. My brewing is ridiculously better as a result of the time you guys put in.