German Sour Beers

[bhaas]

Most traditional german sour beers (Gose and Berliner Weisse) seem to call for either no boil or a short boil, 15min to 45min. What is the benefit from the short boil? With a high percentage of pilsener malt and a short boil wouldn't one be concerned about driving off smm? With that concern in mind is it possible to make a high quality german sour with a full boil or does the lack of boil play an important role in the flavor development for the style? Thanks

[brewinhard]

I have brewed successful versions of both beers and with the BW I have never boiled it. I simply performed a single mash infusion with a mash-out, then drained into a kettle, chilled to 100F and pitched a huge lacto starter (ale yeast a few days later).

For the gose, I did a 90 min boil as this beer incorporated a bit more pilsner and a small amount of munich. Post boil was the same for the BW.

I think you could get away with a 90 min. boil for a BW but it is not necessary. I did boil a small hopped decoction for about 20 min.to isomerize some IBU's into the beer. I think the full boil would darken the beer, and possibly introduce too many IBU's unless you planned accordingly by adding them with just a few minutes left. Lactobacillus is a very weak bacteria and cannot tolerate much in the way of IBU's, so try to keep them under 5 or so for the beer to properly sour. The other trick with lacto is to ferment it hot (keep at 95F) and do NOT introduce any oxygen (ie don't aerate your lacto starter, or oxygenate your wort, no splashing, etc) as this will be detrimental to the lacto's population growth (which you don't want).

the short boil only serves to isomerize some hops (IBU's), and blow off some DMS in the pilsner malt. both of these can be done with a simple wort decoction mash that is lightly hopped. The short boil also helps to sterilize the wort. But hey, you're making a sour beer, so let the lacto play!

[ChrisKennedy]

Short boils for a sour mashed beer is a bad idea in my opinion. I think you need a long boil to help blow off any garbage-y aromas you may have gotten from the sour mash.

For a lacto pitched berliner or gose, what I think you gain from a no boil is a fairly intense raw dough character that some people like and some people hate. I like it.

[bhaas]

Brewinhard how did your gose turn out? here is my plan OG 1.048 50% wheat malt 50% pilsner malt. No hops. 45min boil, 1oz ground coriander 10min, 1 tablespoon of salt. Ferment 50% with wyeast 3068 and 50% lacto. blend and add 1 oz coriander (maybe less). Then use the lacto following your recommendation for fermentation, probably boil 15min for the berliner weisse

[brewinhard]

Brewinhard how did your gose turn out? here is my plan OG 1.048 50% wheat malt 50% pilsner malt. No hops. 45min boil, 1oz ground coriander 10min, 1 tablespoon of salt. Ferment 50% with wyeast 3068 and 50% lacto. blend and add 1 oz coriander (maybe less). Then use the lacto following your recommendation for fermentation, probably boil 15min for the berliner weisse

The gose turned out great and is getting even better as I let it age. I brewed it last summer and it is starting to have a very interesting lemony sourness to it that was not there before. The salt addition is high in mine which really makes your mouth water for another sip. I would avoid using any type of hefeweizen strain as this will give you banana and clove which you do not want in this style of beer. You are better off using a clean ale yeast (either american or german). WY 1007 or even safale S05 will be fine. This will let the coriander, salt, and lacto shine. You DO want to add some hops to this beer so it has that beer-like quality, albeit you want very little in the way of IBU's (think under 10, and more like 8.). Just remember, if you want the beer to be sour enough, you really need to pitch a large, healthy starter of just pure lactobacillus (not aerated). I would let that ferment for about 2 days at 95 deg. F, then cool to ale temps and pitch your ale strain to finish things up. Even with a 50/50 blend of lacto and ale yeast your beer will not get sour enough. If you are going to pitch them at the same time, they really should be in the order of about 5:1 lacto to yeast. I could never really be sure if I had a 5:1 ratio, so I just always pitched my lacto first to make sure to get enough sourness. Don't be afraid to let these beer styles age as well to increase the acidity and sourness.

With patience you will be rewarded with a wonderful summer schwiller!