Berliner Weisse Question

[Thirsty Mallard]

Greetings all! Quick question for those with BW experience...

I will be making a 1.090 beer in the future so I wanted to make a small batch of beer around 1.035 to get a nice yeast cake to use.

I've always wanted to brew a BW, so I figured this would be a good opportunity... however I have a question on the lacto bugs. Most recipes I see include the primary pitch of the neutral yeast AND the lacto yeast. Since I want to use this yeast for another beer, I don't want the lacto in it.

Can I, say, ferment the base ale for 3 days with just the neutral strain, rack to secondary and add the lacto strain, then use the yeast from the primary to kick off my 1.090 beer? With such a small beer, I assume fermentation will be mostly done within 3 days, but not all the way, so hopefully some residual sugars remain for the lacto yeast.

What say you my networks?

[siwelwerd]

Next time I brew a Berliner Weisse I am going to split the wort, ferment part with an ale yeast, part with lacto, and then blend. This might work well for your needs.

If you ferment for 3 days and then add lacto, I don't think it will be sour enough.

[Quin]

It would be tough to make sure that there was something left for the lacto and also that you get a complete fermentation. I was thinking you could make a bigger beer at say 1.048 and rack after three days, but I would be afraid of a stuck fermentation.

You could also do a sour mash, short boil to kill off the lacto, and then pitch the yeast to finish it off. I did a similar procedure for 12 gallons of Berliner Weisse.

-Standard mash at 150F
-mashout
-runoff
-boil for 5 min
-chill to 130F. Transfer back to mash tun.
-added 2lbs pils malt for inoculation w. lactic bacteria
-covered w/ saran wrap to reduce oxygen ingress
-held around 100F 96 hours. Runoff to kettle.
- boiled 90 min and added 5 IBUs of Hallertau Mittlefrue
-chilled to 65F and pitched clean ale yeast

[brewinhard]

I have never gotten a BW sour enough without pitching a HUGE starter of just lacto first and letting it go for 2-3 days at 95 F, then cooling it gradually to ale temps and adding a vial of ale yeast to finish things up. If you add the ale yeast first and then lacto in secondary I don't think you will really get any sourness at all.

Siwelwerd had a good option for you with fermenting half the batch with your yeast strain and the other half with straight lacto, then blending the two. This would still get you some sourness (not sure how much), and let you use the yeast cake for a clean batch later. Good luck and let us know what you decided to go with!

[Thirsty Mallard]

Thanks for the input. I think I'll try splitting the batch. I think I'll do 2 gallons with neutral yeast and 3 gallons with the lacto, then blend the two. The 2 gallons should make for an ideal starter and hopefully the 3 gallons with lacto will give me enough sour.

I shall report back... FOR SCIENCE!

[Quin]

Make sure and check the gravity of the lacto bach before blending. The lacto will stop when it reaches a certain acidity; there may be a considerable amount of sugars left to ferment.