Yeast step up rates and Mr Malty

[yinzer]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone on TBN talk about the proper step up rates for yeast. But looking at Mr Malts rates I wonder if i would ever need more than a single step starter.

note: I'm only doing ales <5gallon.

According to the site I can make a 1.050 (which is pretty high) I can go up to 8 Liters and only need a single vial. And 8 liters of starter will get me 5 gal @ 1.200.

So by the looks of it I shouldn't at this time need any step ups.

[Ozbrewer]

no you realy do need to step it up, and dont try it with wort to high in gravity or youll have problems, for some reason the figure of step is 5 x each step so if you start with 100ml, the next step is 500ml.....but i think that is even to high for the first 2-3 steps i would start at 100ml, then 200, then 500, then 1500........(thats assumiong its going from a slant


maybe Jon or Doc or Jamil can answer a little better

[yinzer]

no you realy do need to step it up, and dont try it with wort to high in gravity or youll have problems, for some reason the figure of step is 5 x each step so if you start with 100ml, the next step is 500ml.....but i think that is even to high for the first 2-3 steps i would start at 100ml, then 200, then 500, then 1500........(thats assumiong its going from a slant


maybe Jon or Doc or Jamil can answer a little better

Thanks OZ.

FWIW I always use 1.040, but I did hear on one show that for a HG wort you need to make a HG starter. I wish I remember when it was said. And I only using WL vials. Stir plate is in the works.

What I'm thinking is to figure out the proper window of the size of steps. Then while keeping equal steps until I reach my target, I'd limit the steps as much as I can until I reach the upper limit of the window. Once I get to the upper limit of the window, then add a step and drop the steps to the lower end of the window.

One thing I'm over looking might be the quality of the yeast right out of the gate with the vial.

[jaydub]

One thing I'm over looking might be the quality of the yeast right out of the gate with the vial.

It'll be nice to hear what Chris White has to say when The Brewcasters interview him next year, but from what I recall about Jamil's take on White Labs yeast is that when you're within the expiration dating on the tube, you're talking about a very high viability rate: 80% to 95%.

[yinzer]

One thing I'm over looking might be the quality of the yeast right out of the gate with the vial.

It'll be nice to hear what Chris White has to say when The Brewcasters interview him next year, but from what I recall about Jamil's take on White Labs yeast is that when you're within the expiration dating on the tube, you're talking about a very high viability rate: 80% to 95%.

Just to be clear on what I was saying, the first step might not be indicitive of the following steps.

That should be a great show. I'll try to get into chat for that one. I got lots O'?'s

[Ozbrewer]

FWIW I always use 1.040, but I did hear on one show that for a HG wort you need to make a HG starter.

i was listening the the Basic BRewing Radio archives today, the Guy from Wyeast says that that is not the way to do it as it will increase the stress on the yeast, bla bla bla....something about cell walls.....then Di wanted attention and i messed the next part...bla bla bla.......but what i did get is that you should not go over 1050 at all, for a high grav beer do a larger starter and O2 it a good while, that way the yeast will be good and strong

[Danno]

I've always read that yeast are stressed at high gravitities so make your starters in the 1.040 range and then pitch big. I remember hearing someone on the show saying to match the gravities but somehow, making a 1.120 starter for my RIS seems crazy. Most say that the yeast are pretty much useless after a high gravity batch so don't bother saving them. My experience says that making starters at 1.040 always leads to a great ferment if I pitch enough yeast. For my RIS and similar OG beers, I always brew a small beer first and pitch the big one on the yeast from that batch.

[jamilz]

You never want to make a high gravity starter. Make all your starters around 1.035 and keep them at reasonable temperatures, not too high, ~67F.

Yes, you can use a single tube or smack pack into 8 liters of 1.035 wort as a starter and that will result in a nice pitch of yeast. 8 liters is not too much wort for a single vial or pack to ferment as a starter.

The rule of thumb for stepping up yeast is 10x in volume. So, you start from a single colony off a plate or slant into 10 ml of wort. That ferments and then you go to 100 ml, then 1000 ml, etc. You can use other mulipliers, though I've always heard 10x.