Hop tea

[bubrewer]

Last show I heard Dr. Scott explaining about how hop utilization varies based on wort gravity, and that "hop tea" (just hops in water) would give the best utilization.

Isn't there an issue with grassy or tannic compounds being leached from the plant matter in the hops if the pH of the boiling solution is too high? If not, it seems like we would all do well to keep a teapot next to us on brew day and boil all our hops in there, then dump the tea into the wort right near the end.

I also wonder if there is a saturation limit of the various hop oils and acids in solution. Sometimes when we make an IIPA, the amount of hops necessary to get the right bitterness in that thick wort makes draining the kettle a challenge at the end. If there are no saturation issues, I might boil the hops separately in just the 3rd runnings while the first 2/3 boils on its own, then combine them right before flameout. That should give me the same bitterness with less hop matter in the kettle, right?

[Push Eject]

I thought the idea was that the grains did not need the 60+ minute boil... that after 20 or 30 minutes you had converted as much starches as you were going to and were primed to extract tannins after that.

The hops, I thought, were really what needed the 60 or even 90 minutes in the kettle.

Cheers,
Charlie

[Dr Scott]

I also wonder if there is a saturation limit of the various hop oils and acids in solution. Sometimes when we make an IIPA, the amount of hops necessary to get the right bitterness in that thick wort makes draining the kettle a challenge at the end. If there are no saturation issues, I might boil the hops separately in just the 3rd runnings while the first 2/3 boils on its own, then combine them right before flameout. That should give me the same bitterness with less hop matter in the kettle, right?

Yes, the saturation limit is one of the reasons you have to add so damn many hops to IIPAs. The Hop Util. goes down as the OG goes up. Bub I think you're on to something with that method. Boiling in the more diluted 2nd or 3rd runnings would give you better hop utilization. Then removing the hop trub and adding it back would make a great experiment (and a lot of extra work) that might well make a great beer.

[Dr Scott]

I thought the idea was that the grains did not need the 60+ minute boil... that after 20 or 30 minutes you had converted as much starches as you were going to and were primed to extract tannins after that.

The hops, I thought, were really what needed the 60 or even 90 minutes in the kettle.

Cheers,
Charlie

I think you might be lumping the mash tun and the boil kettle processes together. All the conversion happens during the mash (and during malting). Lots of complex things happen to the wort during the boil. When we have been talking about short boil times in the kettle, it's about extract. (ie Late additions) The extract has come from wort already boiled and processed by the extract maker, so you can get away with only boiling for a short time.

Hops need heat to change the AA into a more soluable form. You can boil longer (to a point) to get the IBUs up to your target. or add more hops. It's all a percentage.

To illustrate: (these are just random numbers to use as an example)
1oz hops @ 60 min (30% util)
3oz hops @10min (10% util)

But this can be altered by many factors

[Push Eject]

My God, you're right, Doc... I'm mixing my methaphors!