Jamil...I'm soooooo confused!

[alemonger]

Jamil, we need a rebuttal! After listening to your 2 guest episodes on TBN, I have started making 2 liter yeast starters (with magnetic stirrer) either the night before or the morning of brewing. Now the White Labs guy says its not necessary--his vials are plenty of yeast and all I'm doing is basically waking the yeast up with my efforts, not increasing cell count. I'm so confused!

[rich]

Despite the new convtroversy over cell counts in starters, I say keep do what you've been doing. The only time I've pitched a WL vial directly, I had a 36 hour lag time. Screw that. I only do one litre starters, that I pitch at high krausen after about 18 hour on the stir plate, wort, trub, slurry and all (well not the stir bar). I have four hour average lag times, and get raging fermentations.

We could debate the cell count in different sized starters, but my take is that if lag time is drastically reduced, it's worth it by that alone.

[Homegrown Hops]

The only time I've pitched a WL vial directly, I had a 36 hour lag time

I have used WL vials as well as some dried yeasts and have never seen fermentation initiation over 12 hours. I generally get action within 4-6 hours. I usually go ahead and make a starter though because I do ten gallon batches. I just pitch a vial into 3/4 gallon of DME wort and give it at least 24 hours.

Cheers,
HH


P.S Chris White did say that if you are pitching into 2L or more that you so get at least a doubling in an overnight starter.

[jamilz]

If you just want to "make beer" you can just toss in the vial or dry yeast or whatever (do with the wort warm) and it will result in beer.

However, the questions that people ask me are never, "How do I make beer?" The questions I'm asked are, "How do I make the best beer? How do I make better beer than I'm making now? How do I make award winning beer?"

If you want to make the best beer, you need to pitch the right amount of yeast. Even Chris White will tell you that. Why does Chris say it is OK to just toss in a vial into any amount of wort? Because it will work and make beer. I think the majority of brewers are just trying to make beer, but as I said, those aren't the questions I'm asked.

[BigBadBrad]

To add to what Jamil said, Chris also stated that it is never a bad idea to make a starter. Even if you're not promoting cell division, you are at least getting the yeast ready to do their job. I have been doing one quart starters on the stir plate for my ales, but based on the recent discussion, I am going to start making 2 quart starters.

Brad

[Ozbrewer]

i do my starters differnet.....I start from a slant, and grow it up on a stir plate first, then later into a lager bottle and go from there

I start with the contents of the slant and 200ml of wort

day 1 200ml
day 2 another 200ml
day 3 make up to 1ltr
day 4 let all the yeast ferment out and leave untill needed

2 days before i need the yeast i drain off the waist wort and add into 2 ltrs of fresh wort, when it comes time to pitch i drain it off the wort again and pitch the slurry in the fermenter

[Homegrown Hops]

i do my starters differnet.....I start from a slant, and grow it up on a stir plate first, then later into a lager bottle and go from there

I start with the contents of the slant and 200ml of wort

day 1 200ml
day 2 another 200ml
day 3 make up to 1ltr
day 4 let all the yeast ferment out and leave untill needed

2 days before i need the yeast i drain off the waist wort and add into 2 ltrs of fresh wort, when it comes time to pitch i drain it off the wort again and pitch the slurry in the fermenter

You da man Oz, I have a lot of respect for those of you out there going from slants or cultures on your own.

[Ozbrewer]

its actually quite easy, you dont need a heap of equitment, have a google around for some instructions there is a bit of info out there, maybe TBN will do a show on culturing my yeast