limits to adjusting water

[JasonHorlacher]

During water-gasm, Palmer stated never use more than 5 grams to adjust your water.
What is everyones thinking on this???

Between my water and every combination of dilution with distilled and what I am trying to brew, when using his spreadsheet 3.0, I reach the 5 gram limit on CaSO4 (gypsum) before reaching my desired level of sulfates of 150+ppm. I do add some MgSO4 (epson salt) but then my Mg maxes out at 30 ppm. I have been working it for two days trying to come up with different combinations, but no luck.

Any advice?

Trying to brew JZ west coast blaster tomorrow.

[Stinkfist]

is this for a 5 gallon batch?

[JasonHorlacher]

is this for a 5 gallon batch?

this is for 7 gallon (5 gallons plus losses)
i will have to re-listen. it is in show three.
Maybe Palmer said 5 grams per 5 gallons, which would allow me 2 more grams. will repost in few minutes

[Stinkfist]

I do two additions...one in the mash and one in the boil kettle and I sparge with Distilled.

I have added a total of more than 5 grams of some salts in my beer usually not much over but over and have not noticed an issue..

I worry more about the numbers I am trying to hit than the amount I am adding...

Just do not go above these values as they can be harmful...

* Calcium (Ca+2) – 250 ppm
* Magnesium (Mg+2) – 50 ppm
* Sulfate (SO4-2) – above 750 ppm
* Sodium (Na+) – above 200 ppm
* Chloride (Cl-) – above 300 ppm

[JasonHorlacher]

i just re-listened. Palmer says it in the last 5:30 of show three.
no more than 5 grams per 5 gallons of water.

this would allow me two more grams, which should work.

[mabrungard]

I like John's general advice in that less is more. Going overboard with mineral additions is unlikely to produce a better beer. I'm sure that John would have elaborated and presented more, but it is a time-limited radio show.

I have a caution on Stinkfist's limits for ion concentrations. In my opinion and every other brewing text I've seen, the limits above are far too high. The Ca limit is relatively inconsequential, but the others can be detrimental.

Although there are places in the world with Mg levels greater than 30 ppm, there is ample evidence that a limit of 30 ppm is better for beer flavor.

Burton groundwater is variable due to its interaction with the Trent River. Sulfate levels for that source generally vary between 500 and 900 ppm, but that still doesn't mean that this sulfate level is a good idea for beer flavor. I suggest that limiting it to a more sane level of 250 to 350 ppm is still going to make those hops pop without being minerally. An interesting sidenote from AJ is that noble hops and sulfate do not get along. He has told me that sulfate levels should be as low as possible with those hops.

The sodium level is again too high for most styles. A Gose can have levels greater than this, but it is a curious drink. I don't think the drinker would find the 200 ppm level salty, but it can add a harshness to the overall beer. I suggest that a preferred maximum would be 100 to 150 ppm Na.

And then finally, chloride. A level of 300 is ridiculously high. The interaction of chloride and sulfate is known to be poor at high concentrations of each. There really is no reason that a brewer bring the Cl level that high. I strongly recommend that the concentration be kept to 100 ppm or less.

Bru'n Water gives a good run down on more sane ion concentrations.

Cheers!

[JasonHorlacher]

I agree with the fact all those numbers were high. Even at 1 gram per gallon (7 total), I was struggling to reach 200 ppm sulfate. just seeing if anyone goes over that amount with success.

how does this look:
Calcium (ppm) 103
Magnesium (ppm) 38
Alkalinity as CaCO3 200
Sodium (ppm) 15
Chloride (ppm) 45
Sulfate (ppm) 190

RA matches SRM, so not worried about CaCO3.

[Stinkfist]

Those values I posted are the max you should go(before it can actually become harmful) not a suggestion of values to use....