Elysian Night Owl Pumpkin Ale -- SIEBEL BR 96

[BadSaxx]

Just listened to the Can You Brew It show that re-brewed Mirror Pond Pale Ale, Fish Tale Alt, and the homebrewer's attempt at cloning Elysian Night Owl Pumpkin Ale. In the homebrewer's version (Tim?), he mentioned that he used Wyeast 1968 as his yeast. I attended a WAHA event in Seattle at the Elysian Brewery, hosted by Dick Cantwell, founder of Elysian, where Dick talked about Elysian and provided recipes for two of their beers -- The Immortal IPA and the Avatar Jasmine IPA. For both beers, the recipes provided by Dick indicated that Elysian's yeast was Siebel BR 96. Dick's recipe notes say that if you can't get the Siebel yeast, that Wyeast 1056 would be the appropriate replacement. To me, all of Elysian's beers have the same yeast character, so during the brewhouse tour I asked Dick whether they used the same yeast for all of their beers, and he indicated that they used only the single strain for ALL OF THEIR BEERS, which is the Siebel BR 96.

Checking Wyeast's attenuation chart, Wyeast 1056 has an attenuation of 73-77%, with Wyeast 1968 at apparent attenuation of 67-71%, so perhaps that could account for the difference in sweetness between the clone and commercial examples. At any rate, Cantwell says that Wyeast 1056 is the Siebel BR 96 equivalent.

[Rev_Wing13]

I know that Elysian uses American Ale yeast... When I did my 1-gallon test batches, I used 1056, and it wasn't right. The original Night Owl reminded me of Amber Ale with some English character, so I switched to the 1968. It was way closer. I have no idea why - but it tasted closer to the original. Since it was the closest on my 1-gallon batches, that is what I went with on the full batch. Ironically, they said the Elysian sample was the sweeter of the two and that mine was better attenuated, although they did say that the homebrew had more yeast character.

I guess I will try a side by side with both yeasts next fall, but it seems like they liked my version better - even if it wasn't cloned.

Tm

[BadSaxx]

I know that Elysian uses American Ale yeast... When I did my 1-gallon test batches, I used 1056, and it wasn't right. The original Night Owl reminded me of Amber Ale with some English character, so I switched to the 1968. It was way closer. I have no idea why - but it tasted closer to the original. Since it was the closest on my 1-gallon batches, that is what I went with on the full batch. Ironically, they said the Elysian sample was the sweeter of the two and that mine was better attenuated, although they did say that the homebrew had more yeast character.

I guess I will try a side by side with both yeasts next fall, but it seems like they liked my version better - even if it wasn't cloned.

Tm

I'm sure your beer is much better -- Elysian is your basic next-to-a-stadium pubhouse brewery -- lots of different beers, but nothing too 'offensive' to a ballgame-going palate. It's microbrew toned down. People rave about it, but frankly there are 20 craft brewers in the Seattle area brewing better and more interesting beer. I consider it a good brand for people just getting introduced to craft beer, which is great, just not where my beer palate is today. It's hard not to sound snobbish when I say this, but I think the BN crew like your beer better because they really are more sophisticated drinkers -- people who have developed an appreciation for more complex beer.

As to the sweetness issue, I left the Podcast wondering if they really knew which beer was which, and to further complicate things, they disagreed on which beer was "sweeter". I hope you can post here definitively which beer was yours, as I'm sure I would prefer yours over the Elysian.

Another forum member asked me to send him the Avatar Jasmine recipe, which I have posted at http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtop ... =4&t=88379

[jamilz]

I don't know about more sophisticated. I couldn't even figure out the name of the brewery. It hit me as I'm driving home... duh, Elysian... like Elysian Fields. Jeez what a boob I am at times.

I tasted the spare 12 oz bottle. Chad had the beers right. No mistake there. I drank the whole thing too. Well made beer.

The tweaks Tim would need to make to clone the commercial beer would be to get less attenuation and double the cinnamon and ginger.

[JLem]

Did I miss how/when Tim added the pumpkin and the spices? Was the pumpkin added to the mash or the boil or the fermenter/secondary? When were the spices added?

I only listened to the show once, so I can go back and double check, but I don't remember hearing this.

[Evan B]

Night Owl is actually brewed by New Belgium for Elysian. So some things might be different with the yeast and all that. Just a thought

[BadSaxx]

Night Owl is actually brewed by New Belgium for Elysian. So some things might be different with the yeast and all that. Just a thought

Thanks for the info. Here's an article about it in the Denver post http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_1 ... urce=email

Makes it very tricky to clone, doesn't it. Reinforces Jamil's practice of actually talking to the brewer about a specific beer.

[thatguy314]

Does anyone know if BR96 is still the same as sierra? Sierra got it (ostensibly as the ballantine strain). It certainly could have mutated and developed a cleaner, sierra house character before it became that beer that we all know and love and buy from wyeast/whitelabs. Does anyone here remember old school, high-IBU ballantine? Was it super-clean the same way or did it have some ester character? Or even better--has anyone worked directly with the siebel strain to know how it compares to cal ale?