How about 1 show for the "novice?"

[Jimbo]

The point of CYBI is pretty obvious

Wow... I suppose I'm an idiot because I'm missing the "obvious"...

When J asked Jamil a few shows back when he selected 5 different crystal malts for the grain bill of Arrogant Bastard, Jamil couldn't give him a definite answer beyond that's what I think it should be.

Isn't that the part that I'm interested in learning about? How did he arrive at those choices? That is EXACTLY why this show is important to me...

Recipe formulation is over rated anyway.

Really? So you just brew from existing recipes; never change them; just letting someone figure them out for you? If it works for you, who am I to judge...

If you want to get a hold of a collection of proven homebrew recipes, get Brewing Classic Styles.

Umm, see below:

When I'm ready to brew a new beer/recipe, I usually do two things: Pick up the Jamil show podcast for the appropriate style and listen to it (again...) and then refrence Jamil/John's book for a good starting recipe. That has proven really helpful - the show helps me understand what flavors/process are important and the recipe puts me on the "right track".

Now, when I'm trying to formulate my own recipes - I'm having some difficulty figuring out how to start; so the title of my post might be a little mis-leading. I used the term "Novice" as someone who understands the "basics" of brewing; but is ready to try and perform some recipe development on their own.

You know, I'm not trying to be some ignorant PITA. I'm simply providing one opinion, mine. I'm not the best brewer, I don't have a "superb" pallette, but I do have a desire to LEARN. TBN has been a great help for me - far greater than experiences at homebrew shops or clubs so far. Not everyone can be a member of DOZE or Maltose Falcons, etc. And those who are members of those groups, they get to ASK directly - that's pretty nice. This is about as close as I get to being able to ask for help and get a decent answer.

[ApresSkiBrewer]

Just as a side note... many of the first few months/years of the session are shows perfect for the novice. I think if people go back and check out the archives of older sessions, they'll realize a lot of this info is covered, but maybe not in the most consise of manners.

That's why when I realize somebody is pretty hardcore BN, I always recommend going back to the beginning and check out where it all got started. The gradient of info from beginner>intermediate>advanced is actually pretty predominate, as J and the rest of the crew kept learning/advancing along the way.

[Jimbo]

Yeah, but I cry when D leaves the show

I still don't know why J didn't just give her a ring...

[TapItGood]

The point of CYBI is pretty obvious

Wow... I suppose I'm an idiot because I'm missing the "obvious"...

When J asked Jamil a few shows back when he selected 5 different crystal malts for the grain bill of Arrogant Bastard, Jamil couldn't give him a definite answer beyond that's what I think it should be.

Isn't that the part that I'm interested in learning about? How did he arrive at those choices? That is EXACTLY why this show is important to me...

Recipe formulation is over rated anyway.

Really? So you just brew from existing recipes; never change them; just letting someone figure them out for you? If it works for you, who am I to judge...

If you want to get a hold of a collection of proven homebrew recipes, get Brewing Classic Styles.

Umm, see below:

When I'm ready to brew a new beer/recipe, I usually do two things: Pick up the Jamil show podcast for the appropriate style and listen to it (again...) and then refrence Jamil/John's book for a good starting recipe. That has proven really helpful - the show helps me understand what flavors/process are important and the recipe puts me on the "right track".

Now, when I'm trying to formulate my own recipes - I'm having some difficulty figuring out how to start; so the title of my post might be a little mis-leading. I used the term "Novice" as someone who understands the "basics" of brewing; but is ready to try and perform some recipe development on their own.

You know, I'm not trying to be some ignorant PITA. I'm simply providing one opinion, mine. I'm not the best brewer, I don't have a "superb" pallette, but I do have a desire to LEARN. TBN has been a great help for me - far greater than experiences at homebrew shops or clubs so far. Not everyone can be a member of DOZE or Maltose Falcons, etc. And those who are members of those groups, they get to ASK directly - that's pretty nice. This is about as close as I get to being able to ask for help and get a decent answer.

Jimbo,
Nobody expects you to hit the ground running and brew gold medal winning beer right out of the gate. If it's drinkable and doesn't become plant fertilizer you're doing good (at least for the first few months, IMO). You will notice as you continue to brew and become more experience your beer gets better and better (unless your J of course ). That's the beauty of being a novice. Your're constantly learning and finding what works and what doesn't. Just being in the BN Army is going to improve your beers becuase of the wealth of information and the collection of so many accomplished brewing minds (both pro and amatuer). Just keep at it, keep listening to the BN, keep experimenting and read every brewing book you can get your hands on. Plus I noticed that, right around the time a became a monthly supporter, my beer improved exponentuially...just sayin' Cheers Brotha!

[Tom from Raleigh]

Jimbo-

Trying to learn recipe formulation from Can You Brew It is like trying to learn about chemistry from a biology textbook. You may learn something, but for the most part you're looking in the wrong place and ultimately you won't find what you're looking for. The show is just not about how to formulate the recipe. I'm not saying that recipe formulation isn't worth doing, just that Can You Brew It hasn't seemed to go there, though they got close on the Arrogant Bastard show.

To understand recipe formulation, you really need to have a trained palette, so you can identify whether the brewer used American 2 Row or Continental Pilsner as the base malt, for example.

One way to get your question answered in CYBI would be to participate in the live show through the chat or to send in your question ahead of time. Asking a question like, "How do I go about recipe formulation?" is too broad for them to answer in the format of the show, but if you ask something along the lines of "When you're trying to clone this beer, what are the defining characteristics? In other words, to really nail this beer what are the three key things you have to get right?" In SNPA, you need to have malt firm but not cloying malt backbone with significant caramel tones, clean, dry yeast character and an assertive but not dominating Cascade hop flavor. You hear some of this in the show, but I don't think they explicitly answer the question.

BTW, do you own Radical Brewing by Randy Mosher? From your posts, I think you'd really like it. Mosher comes at homebrewing from a fun and more artistic point of view, especially compared to Palmer, who's approach is more scientific. Radical Brewing is one of my favorite brewing books and is often found in my favorite reading spot, the bathroom.

Hope this helps.

P.S. I'm not a great brewer. I usually brew good beer. Sometimes I brew great beer and sometimes my efforts really miss the mark. I've found that when I made up my own recipes, I would brew more misses than hits. Now I start from a proven recipe and I've found that helps.

[Jimbo]

+1 on the Reading Location

I don't have Randy's book, but I am starting to compile my Christmas "gift list" - sounds like a nice place for it.

Thanks for the suggestions on the recipe formulation.

Part of my frustration is that I think I'm realizing that I'll probably never brew "enough" to actually get to a level where I can perform those kinds of activities. (I brew all grain, around 10 - 15 times/year). I'm recognizing that I'm hitting my skill limit at my current brewing quantities and current time constraints. I don't like it, but I do understand... I just don't want to accept it...

[mattmacleod]

I think the idea of a "novice" show, and in particular one that covers SNPA (or a similarly accessible beer) is good for the following reasons:

For the "novice" brewer taking an arguably more simple recipe that can be brewed repeatedly using the original beer as a benchmark would be a really interesting exercise. Trying to do similar with recipes that use more advanced techniques (dry hopping, souring, oak aging) or more unusual ingredients (spices, oak) would be more difficult simply because there are more variables. I don't believe it is as simple as following the recipe verbatim because as we all know the brewer and his/her rig have a significant impact on the final outcome.

And from a purely selfish point of view, I am a paid up member of the BN Army living in England and whilst the CYBI shows are entertaining and somewhat useful, so far the only beers I can get my hands on are Stone and Rogue at butt-clenchingly expensive prices. However SNPA is pretty commonplace in most supermarkets - as I'm sure it is in many other places around the world - so would be a sound choice as far as I am concerned.

On a slightly different note, I don't agree that CYBI is based around the pro-brewers giving up their recipe for Jamil et al to brew. Are we not also relying on the skill of Jamil, Mike and whoever else is involved to create the recipe? Surely if it was just about getting recipes from pro-brewers, Justin could host the show on his own! I'd even like to hear a show where the pro-brewer clams up completely and gives them nothing - let's raise the Pope's bar a bit!

[CrewF24]

I thought the Deshcutes Black Butte was a really easy beer to brew. I made it and it has been great!

The last couple of beers have been tough, but in case you haven't noticed they get a couple/few beers from the brewer all at the same time, so a couple Belgian brews may not be accessible to a novice brewer, I think a lot of their other beers have been fairly straight forward.