Batch Sparging + No Sparging

[bub]

I think the "step 2" is to better rinse the grains of sugar... since step 1 has a concentration of sugars of say... 30% (note bullshit numbers) the grains are covered in 30% solution and when you add plain water in step 2 the sugar goes into solution and gives you a 5% concentration... when you are done with step 2 the grain coverage is only that 5%... where as if you did a single "large step" you would lets say have a total concentration of 10% which covers the grain... you get what I am saying... nevermind.
BUB

[Denny]

That is no sparge, not a combo of batch and no sparge.

As I understand it no sparge would be where you add no additional water, to do that you have to increase your grain amount so the water you add for conversion will yield the amount you want in the kettle.

What I'm suggesting is basically batch sparging, you add the "sparge" water after conversion, but before you do the first runoff.

Nope, that would make your mash ratio way too high. No sparge is basically what was originally proposed...adding more water before runoff. The onlt real drawback is a big hit in efficiency.

[J.Brew]

According to every peice of litterature I have read Bub is right about sugar saturation. In very simplistic terms ( well they're all I have OK!!) When you add water at the end of the mash the entitre volume is sugar water. When you drain the water out the grain is still saturated with sugar water, as a sponge would be. When you then add hot water, The sugars are leached out and into the solute (water) by the process of diffusion, in an attempt to raech an equilibrium of solute concentration. Hope that helps!

[crazymonkey15]

When you drain the water out the grain is still saturated with sugar water, as a sponge would be. When you then add hot water, The sugars are leached out and into the solute (water) by the process of diffusion, in an attempt to raech an equilibrium of solute concentration. Hope that helps!

Why wouldn't the same thing happen when you add additional water, the fly spargers never drain the grain bed and they'll collect the same total volume in the end?

[BrewBum]

Because you are constantly rinsing the grains in fly sparging so there is constant sugar being pulled from them. The sponge is a great example of what is occurring I think. Bub did nothing to help, although I know he knows what he means.



I will try another example and see if this flies. When you shampoo your hair, if you have any, if you were to lather it all up and stick your head in a bucket of water and put it out once would all the soap be out of it? No. If you did it twice would most of it be out of it? Probably. If you stand under the shower head does it rinse it completely out? Yes. There, I just explained no-sparge, batch sparge and fly sparge with a shower reference.

Thank you and good night!!

[J.Brew]

Good Example Brew Bum. In fly sparging the sweet wort is being drained out, moving downward through the grain, and being replaced by water at the top of the bed, so the grain bed never drains out, but the sweet wort does however. It rely's on the same principle, and diffusion of concentrated sugars still takes place.

[Speyedr]

UH huh, yup, what he said...

[JMUBrew]

Well damn, whadya know, that makes sense! Now I'm going to go have my fiance demonstrate for me

I had been under the impression that by adding the additional hot water at the mash out (and then stirring up the whole mash) I was helping to get additional sugars into solution. While it may be happening, I have to wonder just how much.