Efficiency Help

[Dr Scott]

The PH is where Im a slacker, I have no idea before or after doughing in. I just know from being in places with both extreems on water that mine is neither extreemly hard nor soft, but somewhere in between.

I understand this isn't that big of a deal and Doc's "relax and have a homebrew" attitude about your stats. However, my OCD is kicking in and I'm very interested in this topic. So I have a question. Don't PH levels indicate the acidity/alkalinity of the water versus the dissolved mineral level (hard/softness)? Are the two proportionate to each other? Hate to kick a dead horse but asking stupid questions is the only way I'll learn.

Mash pH and water pH; related but different. Mash pH is what you're interested in for efficiency, The water pH influences the mash pH.

OK, Think of what you're doing in the mash. You're making the environment happy for the enzymes. All enzymes work best in a particular Temperature and pH range (their optimum). They will work outside this range but slower. The two main enzymes in the mash that we manipulate are the A&B amylases. Generally in AG brewing we use the temp to make this manipulation happen. The "brewers window" is a compromise between the two temp ranges of the A&B amylases (149-152F). This is not the optimal for either. The same is true for the pH ranges for both, it's a compromise. If you get outside the optimal (pH) range/window for these enzymes, production of their substrates is slowed, (like w/ temperature). (i.e.- you won't break down the starches into enough fermentable sugars, and you OG goes down)

Now, let's talk about the effects of water pH on the mash. Normally, (w/o any outside influences) the mash buffers will want things to settle in to a pH range of 5.2-5.4 on it's own (Yeah us!). If you have hard water/high pH and a light grain bill you will have a mash pH that is too high (maybe 5.9). Conversely, if you have dark grains (which are acidic and pull the mash pH down) and soft water (w/ nothing in it to buffer the acidic grains) then you will have a pH that is too low. Even if you hit your temps right on, (you should calibrate your thermometer btw, to make sure) the mash is less efficient if your pH is out.

Mash thickness is also a factor in mash efficiency.

[Big Chooch]

Got it! Now, may I assume that products like "5.2" (I know, I know, the water show is coming) add MORE buffers therefore decreasing the impact of the aforementioned influences on mash efficiency?

The advertising for "5.2" make the product sound as if it's a foolproof method of "locking in" the mash Ph at 5.2. Is there any merit to the hype? I hope so since I spent a bit of money on a bucket after the Star-San show.

[medtech]

Doc, does thicker mash equal higher efficiency?? What is the limit to this?

[Danno]

While there are many things that will affect efficiency (some havebeen mentioned above) by far the most common and easiest to change is the crush of the malt. Don't sweat the pH unless you have ugly water or lots of dark malts. Mash thickness, mash tun type, runoff rate and all of the rest will push your efficiency one way or the other by a few points. Adjusting the crush can push it ±15%.

[Big Chooch]

While there are many things that will affect efficiency (some havebeen mentioned above) by far the most common and easiest to change is the crush of the malt. Don't sweat the pH unless you have ugly water or lots of dark malts. Mash thickness, mash tun type, runoff rate and all of the rest will push your efficiency one way or the other by a few points. Adjusting the crush can push it ±15%.

Really? Thats a lot more than I had counted on. Unfortunately, I crack my grain at the LHBS so I have no idea how I can control this unless I get a mill. And frankly, there are a few items in line ahead of a mill. Can the mill at most LHBS's be trusted?

[Danno]

I suffered for the first year at a 55% efficiency. Reading about how everybody was getting 70% (that was 7 years ago) I thought it was my mash tun or my process. Finally, I asked an experienced club member and he noted that he got 55% as well but didn't worry about it. That lead me to try milling the grain twice through the same mill. That jumped my efficiency by just over 5%. I knew I was on to something.

I went out and bought my own mill and my efficiency jumped to 70% immediately (no change in the process or anything else). Nowadays, I hang at 75% and don't sweat it. Any more and I start having problems with a compacted mash (stuck) with my HERMS. If I pile in a huge grain bill (35 lb), I widen the gap one notch and I'm good to go. The funny thing is that as I talk to more and more people, I find out that everyone has the same problem with the LHBS's mill. Like I did, they always think it's their process, not the mill.

Try milling twice. Then either adjust your recipes to your efficiency or go buy your own mill. Remember, an extra pound or two of malt is a lot cheaper than a mill.

[Dr Scott]

I suffered for the first year at a 55% efficiency. Reading about how everybody was getting 70% (that was 7 years ago) I thought it was my mash tun or my process. Finally, I asked an experienced club member and he noted that he got 55% as well but didn't worry about it. That lead me to try milling the grain twice through the same mill. That jumped my efficiency by just over 5%. I knew I was on to something.

I went out and bought my own mill and my efficiency jumped to 70% immediately (no change in the process or anything else). Nowadays, I hang at 75% and don't sweat it. Any more and I start having problems with a compacted mash (stuck) with my HERMS. If I pile in a huge grain bill (35 lb), I widen the gap one notch and I'm good to go. The funny thing is that as I talk to more and more people, I find out that everyone has the same problem with the LHBS's mill. Like I did, they always think it's their process, not the mill.

Try milling twice. Then either adjust your recipes to your efficiency or go buy your own mill. Remember, an extra pound or two of malt is a lot cheaper than a mill.

Danno's right on w/ this. A poor crush size can be a problem w/ extraction rates. Many LHBS don't overcrush so to avoid their customers complaining of a stuck mash. With your own mill you have more control and he uses it to his advantage by adjusting it as needed.

LenB said he had B3 do the crush, and since this is the same mill I use, I really didn't think this would be as big a factor in his efficiency. I still think it could be measurements and calibration. If you're new to mashing, I still think you need to worry more about the processes (crush included) and leave the other stuff for later.

That's what is so cool about homebrewing, there's always a way to get better. If I had to stop at brewing w/ extract, I doubt I would have stuck w/ it this long.

[Lars]

When I started batch sparging, I had to up my grain a bit to get the gravity I was looking for. Now that I have my own mill, I usually have to scale back the recipe so I don't overshoot my gravity. Yeah, I crush pretty damn fine, and for batch sparging it works great!