Berliner Weisse technique from Zymurgy

[patterns]

There is also a really great presentation from the AHA 2012 conference.
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/lets-brew/homebrewing-seminars/2012
They recommend doing it a bit differently. Mash and chill your wort, then pitch 10mil cells per ml of lacto. Let the ph drop for a week then pitch yeast.
The presentation go over which yeast they used and why some work better than others. Also they say lacto doesn't want to work as well in the higher alcohol, which could be why some of yours are taking a year to sour.
It was well worth the hour to listen to.
I've got the lacto starter going now and will report back how it's going.

[EllisTX]

Listened to that last night patterns. Good info. Very interesting that the commercial brewer literally pitched one pellet into his large batch.

I kegged my BW yesterday. I'm plenty happy with the result. Bready, tart, and dry. This is a beer I'll for sure brew again soon. It's perfect for summer weather. I'll bump my gravity a bit next time, pitch lacto in the fermenter instead of babysitting the kettle, pitch lacto first, wait 7 days, then pitch yeast. Maybe bottle a little of it with Brett even. Thanks for all the info in this thread.

[brewinhard]

Listened to that last night patterns. Good info. Very interesting that the commercial brewer literally pitched one pellet into his large batch.

I kegged my BW yesterday. I'm plenty happy with the result. Bready, tart, and dry. This is a beer I'll for sure brew again soon. It's perfect for summer weather. I'll bump my gravity a bit next time, pitch lacto in the fermenter instead of babysitting the kettle, pitch lacto first, wait 7 days, then pitch yeast. Maybe bottle a little of it with Brett even. Thanks for all the info in this thread.

I just don't see how there could be any residual sugars left behind for the saccharomyces to consume after a 7 day lacto fermentation has already occurred. Especially if a large lacto starter is employed.

[patterns]

Well my lacto starter is going now and I pitch it tomorrow. I'll try and take gravities daily and let you know how much is left after a week.

In the link that I put above there is also a powerpoint to the presentation. On the commercial scale they did this and pitched lacto into a SG of 1.035. After 7 days the gravity only dropped to 1.026. Then they pitched 2124 Bohemian Lager and it dropped to 1.008 in another 8 days.

[EllisTX]

Listened to that last night patterns. Good info. Very interesting that the commercial brewer literally pitched one pellet into his large batch.

I kegged my BW yesterday. I'm plenty happy with the result. Bready, tart, and dry. This is a beer I'll for sure brew again soon. It's perfect for summer weather. I'll bump my gravity a bit next time, pitch lacto in the fermenter instead of babysitting the kettle, pitch lacto first, wait 7 days, then pitch yeast. Maybe bottle a little of it with Brett even. Thanks for all the info in this thread.

I just don't see how there could be any residual sugars left behind for the saccharomyces to consume after a 7 day lacto fermentation has already occurred. Especially if a large lacto starter is employed.

That was certainly a problem this first time. That's why I might go up 10-20 gravity points next time so the yeast will have something to eat. It's worth a few not great batches for me if I can get a BW done is 1 month instead of 1 year.

[brewinhard]

Well my lacto starter is going now and I pitch it tomorrow. I'll try and take gravities daily and let you know how much is left after a week.

In the link that I put above there is also a powerpoint to the presentation. On the commercial scale they did this and pitched lacto into a SG of 1.035. After 7 days the gravity only dropped to 1.026. Then they pitched 2124 Bohemian Lager and it dropped to 1.008 in another 8 days.

Very interesting...I have read that sometimes lacto can throw out quite a bit of CO2 and appear to be fermenting all the while souring the beer during the primary fermentation, only to find that the gravity has really not dropped all that much. Hence, the sacch. yeast having something left to consume.

[EllisTX]

Well my lacto starter is going now and I pitch it tomorrow. I'll try and take gravities daily and let you know how much is left after a week.

In the link that I put above there is also a powerpoint to the presentation. On the commercial scale they did this and pitched lacto into a SG of 1.035. After 7 days the gravity only dropped to 1.026. Then they pitched 2124 Bohemian Lager and it dropped to 1.008 in another 8 days.

Very interesting...I have read that sometimes lacto can throw out quite a bit of CO2 and appear to be fermenting all the while souring the beer during the primary fermentation, only to find that the gravity has really not dropped all that much. Hence, the sacch. yeast having something left to consume.

On top if that, I'm confused as shit whether or not the lacto produces and ethanol. According to the interwebs one does, one doesn't, one might.....

[Ozwald]

On top if that, I'm confused as shit whether or not the lacto produces and ethanol. According to the interwebs one does, one doesn't, one might.....

It depends.

Strain dependent. Most (that I've encountered) do. They all consume points though.