Brewing TV - 10 - Cascadian Dark Ale Debate

[mediumsk]

Im so sick of this thing.
It's total Bollocks in my opinion. As a Portland resident ( yes thats right Cascadia isn't a word that I or 99.9% of pacific northwester's use to describe anything) I can tell you that there were maybe only 1 or 2 examples of this being made in these parts prior to Abrahams symposium, the ones that come to mind are rogue's beer, Barley Brown's turmoil, and Walking Man's Big black homo. Funny that as soon as this thing called CDA starts getting media attention every Oregon brewery decides to make one and cite it as being a much celebrated style that originated here. Maybe it did start here, but who really knows?

I do have to disagree with Tasty's stance that it's just a sinamar laden IPA. If you have a good example of the "style" it is really something special but therein is my other issue with this "style" It's not broad enough to be a style of it's own, all the outstanding examples I've had are basically clones of each other, big ass chinook bombs, sure you could use centennials or something but it probably wont be that great, there is something about the pine resiny hops that goes well with slight roast and a dry finish.
I guess what I'm saying is that if this were to become a BJCP style I think it would be akin to making something like Orval its own style, or like belgian golden strong where you are essentially cloning Duvel, There just isnt much room to move around with within the guidelines.
well thats my piece.

but if you have to call it something how about
black bitter

[San_Diego_Matt]

what sort of time frame are we talking about for these beers?

rogue's beer, Barley Brown's turmoil, and Walking Man's Big black homo

3 years ago? 5 years ago? 10 years ago?

[calpete]

Aside from the very real question as to whether this even is a new style--and Tasty makes a strong case that it's not--the only name that makes any sense is Black IPA, b/c that's just what it is: a strong, American-hop-centric ale that just happens to be black.

Forget about what the "I" and the "P" originally stood for. Since nobody ever orders an "India Pale Ale", and since the IPA style has evolved so much from its historic origins, those letters no longer stand for anything. IPA today isn't an acronym; it's just a word that happens to be spelled with three capital letters. Harry Truman's middle name was simply "S" , that infamous oil company fouling the Gulf of Mexico is simply "BP", and this hoppy beer I'm drinking is simply an "IPA". Period.

Don't treat language like math. Language does not conform to logic. Rather, it's the product of everyday usage no matter how nonsensical or ahistorical that usage might be. A "Black India Pale Ale" would be oxymoronic, but a "Black IPA" is not. The bottom line is that "Black IPA" more effectively and straightforwardly communicates what one should expect from these beers than some horrifically fictitious, über-nerdy, and geopolitically loaded label like "Cascadian". And let's be honest: order a couple of "Black IPAs" at the bar, and you still have a decent shot of going home with someone worth going home with; order a couple "Cascadian Dark Ales" and you're going to (a) get the shit kicked out of you, and (b) be lucky just to spend the night playing WoW with JP.

[11amas]

Personally I disagree, just because you don't consider 'P' to stand for pale doesn't mean no one does. For me, calling something black and pale at the same time is like saying you will gently beat the life out of someone or softly smash something. Call it an American Black Ale, fine, you don't sound at all retarded. Call something black but pale...? Just my opinion.
Now, CDA doesn't need to imply BIPA unless someone is writing this up officially for a BJCP style description and using the term Black IPA. Just like you say IPA doesn't need to mean anything "pale", why do you need the P? Just call it a Black Ale, BA, CDA, ABA, whatever. Just don't call something on the opaque end of SRM pale; it makes you sound like you have had too many CDAs.

[mediumsk]

what sort of time frame are we talking about for these beers?

rogue's beer, Barley Brown's turmoil, and Walking Man's Big black homo

3 years ago? 5 years ago? 10 years ago?

Ive been here 7 years and big black homo is the only one I've really seen around before about 6 months ago... Barley brown's turmoil (allegedly the beer stone based sublimely self righteous off of) has probably been around a while but is just now showing up here in portland because it has a media buzz to it.
I'm just sayin beer regionalism is so dumb, and all these oregon breweries are jumping on this right now because of media exposure.

[mediumsk]

/quote]

Ive been here 7 years and big black homo is the only one I've really seen around before about 6 months ago....[/quote]


after reading that I feel like I need to say that all of Walking Man's beer's have walking/human evolving type names i.e. pale strider wheat, bi ped red, homo erectus ipa and the black version big black homo.... and let's not forget the barrel aged one... my old Kentucky homo

[Evan B]

but if you have to call it something how about
black bitter

I actually quite like that one.

This is a style I've actually not been too impressed with as far as commercial examples go. I find them all to be basically porters with just a touch more hops than a typical example (I've actually quite liked some of the beers, but haven't found them to be particularly distinct as a new style).

I've brewed several myself, and have nailed what I feel is my own personal vision of the style
http://www.brewmate.net/recipes/jj9Co0j ... PTFNzO.xml

[hopshead]

I second the black bitter.

Also, I don't see the CDA style as being created in the area. As a homebrewer, in the past when I started toying with my own recipes instead of brewing kits or clones, I made hoppy (IPA-like) beers with roasted/chocolate malts to get flavor and color. I didn't live in Cascadia (where-ever that is). I am sure many scores of homebrewers out there have done the same thing, whether that is making hoppy "india - brown - ales" or whatever.

Just my 2 cents, not trying to start a flame. Prost.