Fake IPA haze?

[brewinhard]

If I can pump out a perfectly clear IPA with a shit ton of dry hops from grain to glass in 18 days (kegging obviously) then commercial breweries should be able to do the same. Aesthetically, I much prefer a clear beer (as per style) over a hazy one. I feel that the flavors simply come across more clean and crisp, more drinkable.

[NateBrews]

Agreed, 100%

[cdburg]

My best guess right now, after trying quite a few yeast strains in my IPAs lately, is that it's a function of the yeast used and a BIG dry hop. For example, Wyeast 1318 (London Ale III) is a good flocculating yeast, but when you add a big dry hop, it turns to something that looks like orange juice and doesn't clear. Even if the beer is pretty clear before the dry hop, you get a hell of a haze after the dry hop. I haven't seen the same thing with the american ale yeasts like 001 or 1056. Conan does similar things, at least when I've used it. Very murky beers. My best guess is that it's a reaction between the yeast and the hops, hop polyphenols released by reactions with the yeast maybe, that just won't clear.

I found the 1318 and Conan IPAs interesting at first, but I've gone back to 001 and 1056. Five gallons of the beer was too much for me. I got tired of the beers quickly because they seemed very one dimensional - generic citrus juice. 1318 and Conan changed the flavor of the hops too much for me. It turned them into something entirely different, similar to White Labs 644 Trois, and it seems like it's not the best use of expensive hops. I'd rather use something clean that lets the hops shine rather than something that turns them into something closer to orange juice, both in flavor and appearance. If I'm spending $20 or more for a pound of hops, I'd prefer to taste that hop. 1056 and 001 both clear better too, which helps with the effectiveness of the dry hop.

[brewinhard]

My best guess is that it's a reaction between the yeast and the hops, hop polyphenols released by reactions with the yeast maybe, that just won't clear.

Even with a good dose of gelatin finings?

[cdburg]

Even with a good dose of gelatin finings?

I haven't tried gelatin with those yeasts, but I suspect taking out the haze, especially since it's so significant, would strip most the flavor out of the beer. I'd guess that's where most of the flavor is in these beers. With my other IPAs, there's a fine line between using enough findings to clear the beer and totally stripping out the hop flavor and aroma. It's tough enough with a relatively clear beer (e.g. 001 or 1056).

[Klickitat Jim]

Even with a good dose of gelatin finings?

I haven't tried gelatin with those yeasts, but I suspect taking out the haze, especially since it's so significant, would strip most the flavor out of the beer. I'd guess that's where most of the flavor is in these beers. With my other IPAs, there's a fine line between using enough findings to clear the beer and totally stripping out the hop flavor and aroma. It's tough enough with a relatively clear beer (e.g. 001 or 1056).

That shouldn't be a worry, totally stripping... there are commercial west coast style IPAs that mechanically filter to brilliant clarity and you still smell and taste hops. Gel can possible strip out more than that, right?

[cdburg]

That shouldn't be a worry, totally stripping... there are commercial west coast style IPAs that mechanically filter to brilliant clarity and you still smell and taste hops. Gel can possible strip out more than that, right?

I can tell you that I've definitely had both gelatin and biofine totally strip the flavor and aroma out of an IPA and ruin it. It's a very fine line. I think it's more pronounced if you dry hop with yeast still in suspension. The hop oils attach to that yeast, and when the gelatin drops the yeast, the aroma and flavor is all but gone. If you allow the beer to clear before dry hopping, the gelatin doesn't strip out as much, especially if you use only a small amount of gelatin. If you use too much gelatin though, it totally kills an IPA. I've split a batch and fined half and left the other unfined, and there's a definite difference between the beers.

[NateBrews]

I think I have mentioned this before on other threads, but I have found the best results by using gelatin to strip the yeast out before dry hopping, and then living with the little bit of haze I get from the dry hops. That said, I don't make much IPA so I don't have a broad experience with it. For sure, if you just dump a pile of gelatin into a big hoppy beer you will lose a lot of the hop character. I have also run out bottles then gelatin'ed the keg and compared them side by side.