Steeping flaked wheat and flaked oats?

[siwelwerd]

I'm pretty sure when you boil or steam wheat or oats, you are breaking down the cell walls and releasing the internal sugar reserves (that the plant would normally use to germinate or be consumed during the malting process).

Flaked wheat/oats are pre-gelatinized (I think this is what you are referring to), which means you do not have to do a cereal mash to do this step. However, the starches are still starches--temperature is not what drives the conversion, but enzymes, and these enzymes are not present in unmalted grain. You must mash unmalted wheat/oats with other grains with sufficient diastatic power--the general rule of thumb is an equal amount of base malt.

In regards to steeping: The volume of water many extract brewers use to steep with may be too large, and dilute the enzymes thus making it difficult for conversion to take place, so keep that in mind. Of course, steeping with 1-2qts /lb water in the 145-160 range is just doing a minimash, but calling it that is off-putting to many new brewers.

[CRBrewHound]

Of course, steeping with 1-2qts /lb water in the 145-160 range is just doing a minimash, but calling it that is off-putting to many new brewers.

Thanks for ruining brewing for us, now I am just put off and would rather not brew ever again.

[Dirk McLargeHuge]

Of course, steeping with 1-2qts /lb water in the 145-160 range is just doing a minimash, but calling it that is off-putting to many new brewers.

Thanks for ruining brewing for us, now I am just put off and would rather not brew ever again.

+1 Anyone wanna buy a pot?

[siwelwerd]

Thanks for ruining brewing for us, now I am just put off and would rather not brew ever again.

Sorry, not trying to stir shit up. But in my experience, 'mashing' often has negative connotations of being complex and difficult, whereas 'steeping' is perceived as easy, despite the only difference really being paying a little bit closer attention to temperature and grist ratio. Just trying to point out that the gap is much smaller than many think--I know I used to think mashing was some mystical complex thing when I was starting out, but I had no problems with steeping.

[Dirk McLargeHuge]

Thanks for ruining brewing for us, now I am just put off and would rather not brew ever again.

Sorry, not trying to stir shit up. But in my experience, 'mashing' often has negative connotations of being complex and difficult, whereas 'steeping' is perceived as easy, despite the only difference really being paying a little bit closer attention to temperature and grist ratio. Just trying to point out that the gap is much smaller than many think--I know I used to think mashing was some mystical complex thing when I was starting out, but I had no problems with steeping.

Before I went all grain, it sounded like a lot of hand waving and incantations. Had Harry Potter been around then, I would have read that for brewing tips.

Now? Mashing isn't complicated.

[CRBrewHound]

Thanks for ruining brewing for us, now I am just put off and would rather not brew ever again.

Sorry, not trying to stir shit up. But in my experience, 'mashing' often has negative connotations of being complex and difficult, whereas 'steeping' is perceived as easy, despite the only difference really being paying a little bit closer attention to temperature and grist ratio. Just trying to point out that the gap is much smaller than many think--I know I used to think mashing was some mystical complex thing when I was starting out, but I had no problems with steeping.

I was very much kidding, as you are right, people do have the tendancy to make the leap that it is a difficult process. I don't know where it comes from, maybe a carry over from the moonshining days or something. That is one reason the local brew clubs and local home brew shops are so very important. Once you show up and see someone doing a mash you say "thats it, thats all there is too it?". But again that is one of the brillant things about the hobby as you can start will very little cash and a turkey fryer, then progress slowly through many different steps to get to the ulimate setup and doing step mashing.

The other really cool thing is DIYing it is really fun to see what you can come up with and make for very little money.

[Quin]

Flaked wheat/oats are pre-gelatinized (I think this is what you are referring to), which means you do not have to do a cereal mash to do this step. However, the starches are still starches--temperature is not what drives the conversion, but enzymes, and these enzymes are not present in unmalted grain.

The bonds between sugars that make up starch can be broken by heat or by enzymes. We use heat when we boil raw rice, corn, oats etc. for human consumption or when you perform a decoction. The enzymes are not "added" during malting; they are naturally present in the raw grain otherwise the plant wouldn't be able germinate.

What I was trying to get across is the presence of starch in flaked oats or wheat is dependent on the amount of "cooking" that takes place during the steaming/flaking process. They could be like instant potatoes or like parboiled rice. Some amount of cooking has been done for you already...

[Travisty]

The bonds between sugars that make up starch can be broken by heat or by enzymes.

Not really. Boiling starches does not break them down into sugars. Only enzymes do that. If it were true that boiling could create sugars from starches, there would be no need to mash (or malt for that matter) at all. We could just boil unmalted grains instead of using malted grain and mashing. Boiling an unmalted grain "explodes" the cell walls of a grain which will make the starches inside the cells accessible, but after they're boiled they need to be have enzymes added back to convert the now-available starches to sugars. Hence the cereal mash procedure of boiling the unmalted adjuncts and then adding them to the main mash where there are plenty of enzymes from the base malt to convert their own starches and the extra starch from the adjuncts.

While the enzymes may be present in unmalted grain, the only way (AFAIK) to make them available for mashing without denaturing them is malting. The other means of gelatinizing grain (boiling, flaking, etc.) will denature the enzymes before they can be used to convert starches to sugars.

Oatmeal 1 L Oats are wonderful in a porter or stout. Oatmeal lends a smooth, silky mouthfeel and a creaminess to a stout that must be tasted to be understood. Oats are available whole, steel-cut (i.e. grits), rolled, and flaked. Rolled and flaked oats have had their starches gelatinized (made soluble) by heat and pressure, and are most readily available as "Instant Oatmeal" in the grocery store. Whole oats and "Old Fashioned Rolled Oats" have not had the degree of gelatinization that Instant have had and must be cooked before adding to the mash. "Quick" oatmeal has had a degree of gelatinization but does benefit from being cooked before adding to the mash. Cook according to the directions on the box (but add more water) to ensure that the starches will be fully utilized. Use 0.5-1.5 lb. per 5 gal batch. Oats need to be mashed with barley malt (and its enzymes) for conversion.

Flaked Barley Flaked unmalted barley is often used in Stouts to provide protein for head retention and body. It can also be used in other strong ale styles. Use 0.5-1 lb. per 5 gal batch. Flaked barley must be mashed with base malt.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter12-2.html