Mostly-Grain Process

[Pseudolus]

I do a similarish mostly-mash system in which I mash up to 7 pounds, boil around 4-4.5 gallons, and get any additional fermentables I need from a pound or three of extra light DME. I'm not really sure what you're buying yourself by pitching that entire big starter vs. adding your extract to the very end of your main boil (thus avoiding a concentrated boil) and pitching a more nomal-sized starter. I just top off in my fermenter with some boiled, cooled water.

I like to do my starters a weekish ahead of time, keep them in the fridge until brewday so that they floc out real well, and then decant the nasty oxidized beer off the top before swirling and pitching basically just the yeast into my new fermenter.

So I'm trying to avoid fermentation in the big starter by building it in steps and not giving it time to exhaust the Oxygen.

Not sure what you mean by "avoid fermentation" here.

If this system works for you, hey, keep doing it.

[Norwalde]

I was thinking that if adding the extra DME late is good, then not adding it at all was better. Late extract shortens the length of the concentrated boil, but it's still there. Maybe such a short concentrated boil doesn't have any ill effects, and keeping the extract out of the boil isn't necessary. Seemed just as easy to keep it out entirely, so I did.

I've been told that when making a big starter you don't want to have it ferment all the way out (while exposed to oxygen the whole time) then add that spent wort back to your wort. If you keep it in the growth phase by expanding the volume periodically and keeping it oxygenated, then you can avoid having the starter go into the anaerobic fermentation phase where oxidation flavors can develop.

If you do let it ferment out, then you need to chill it and decant off just the yeast as described in the previous post. Since I was intending to use that wort towards my total gravity, this defeated my original purpose. Also, I've heard the Pope and others recommend that if you chill and decant your starter, then you should, ideally, add that (now dormant) yeast to another starter maybe 5-6 hours before pitching to "wake it up" so that it is active when pitched. So I was also skipping the chilling and decanting steps.

I'm really just dividing the boil into two boils, one with extract and one with grain runoff. If you're going to boil the water you dilute with anyway, then it's still two boils. I also kind of like the fact that it minimizes the gravity fluctuation of the main boil, which skews the IBU calculations.

Thanks again for the feedback. By the way, my second batch with this method is justing finishing up fermentation. I didn't have the ultra-fast ferment like the first time. All seemed to go very well. Lag time was 4-5 hours. May have been shorter except that I was aerating with an aquarium pump (and hepafilter) for 3 hours. I intended to do 1 hour but fell asleep. Has been fermenting at 68 degrees for 4 days now.

[Pseudolus]

I was thinking that if adding the extra DME late is good, then not adding it at all was better. Late extract shortens the length of the concentrated boil, but it's still there.

I add my DME at the very end of the boil, just after I turn off the burner. So it never actually boils at all - although it sits at a high temperature long enough (as I stir it in and get my IC set up) that I'm confident it's sanitary.

I've been told that when making a big starter you don't want to have it ferment all the way out (while exposed to oxygen the whole time) then add that spent wort back to your wort. If you keep it in the growth phase by expanding the volume periodically and keeping it oxygenated, then you can avoid having the starter go into the anaerobic fermentation phase where oxidation flavors can develop.

I see - you're trying to keep the yeast in aerobic mode. Makes sense.

Also, I've heard the Pope and others recommend that if you chill and decant your starter, then you should, ideally, add that (now dormant) yeast to another starter maybe 5-6 hours before pitching to "wake it up" so that it is active when pitched.

Hmm. I haven't had any problems so far pitching un-awakened yeast starter slurries - quick starts, no off flavors. But I can see what that's getting at.

With my brewing lifestyle, I don't always know ahead of time when I'll have a chunk of time that I'll wind up brewing in (I brew a lot on weeknights starting after dinner and finishing in the wee small hours). So a 5-6 hour head start for my yeast isn't so feasible for me. I like having my yeast sitting in the fridge knowing that any time during the week that I can grab a few hours I'll be able to brew.

I also kind of like the fact that it minimizes the gravity fluctuation of the main boil, which skews the IBU calculations.

I keep a second pot of just plain water boiling at the same time as my main boil. I'll periodically top off my kettle with this boiling water to keep the total volume between 4-4.5 gallons. I'll also use this pot of water to boil-sanitize my IC, and then I'll cool it down to use as top off water.

Lots of ways to get to the same outcome. Sounds like your system works for you.