Barleywine

[theobrew]

So I'm thinking of Brewing a Barleywine but I am still an extract/PM brewer.

I'm going to use a modified Jamil recipe but I'm not too worried about the specifics of the recipe quite yet. I wanted to see your impressions on if I could even do a good barleywine with extract. I do a Partial Mash and so my plan is to brew a pale ale to build up some yeast since this will be an American Barleywine. Then I plan on doing my partial mash and and boiling only the wort from the partial mash and adding the extract at the end of the boil to cut down on carmelization.

Two questions.
1) Will this work to make a descent beer? any other suggestions to make it not taste too extracty?
2) What is the best method to using yeast from the previous batch. Is it really that bad just to pour on the yeast cake?

Thanks asshats!

[snowcapt]

Looks like you have the right idea.
not sure what "extracty" means, but di the partial and youll be fi e.
Check out "brewing classic styles", those are all extract/partial mash recipes.
Also, just rinse some of the yeast. Are you familiar with that process?

[brewinhard]

I agree with snowcapt. Your beer will benefit from a partial mash of grains to help you augment some of the sugars from the extract. Just beware that if you add the extract late, which is a fine method, then your hop utilization will be affected since your sugar levels in the kettle before adding the extract will be decreased causing you to have a higher hop isomerization leading to an increased bitterness. Since a barleywine is typically a malty, rich beer, you may want to consider adding at least half of the extract for 60 minutes and the other half later on towards the end. That will help to at least keep your hop utilization a little better in check.

And with a big OG, I think you would be just fine racking your cooled wort (65-68F) onto your full yeast cake. Just be prepared for a strong fermentation and keep your temps under control.

[theobrew]

Looks like you have the right idea.
not sure what "extracty" means, but di the partial and youll be fi e.
Check out "brewing classic styles", those are all extract/partial mash recipes.
Also, just rinse some of the yeast. Are you familiar with that process?

I remember the basics of rinsing from some of the past shows and I'm sure I could go back and listen to it in more depth but I'm not sure I'm comfortable with rinsing it just because I've never done it before. Kinda like partial mash seems really daunting and difficult before you actually do it so if you had any motivational tips I would welcome them.
By extracty I mean that extract twang you sometimes get (It's been talked about on the show and I agree it happens). I've noticed it in some of my beers. Usually my earlier beers where I had poor fermentation control and they were big beers of only extract and steeping grains. So I was hoping with PM, late extract additions, and controlled fermentation I could keep this twang to a minimum.

I agree with snowcapt. Your beer will benefit from a partial mash of grains to help you augment some of the sugars from the extract. Just beware that if you add the extract late, which is a fine method, then your hop utilization will be affected since your sugar levels in the kettle before adding the extract will be decreased causing you to have a higher hop isomerization leading to an increased bitterness. Since a barleywine is typically a malty, rich beer, you may want to consider adding at least half of the extract for 60 minutes and the other half later on towards the end. That will help to at least keep your hop utilization a little better in check.

And with a big OG, I think you would be just fine racking your cooled wort (65-68F) onto your full yeast cake. Just be prepared for a strong fermentation and keep your temps under control.

I wanted to see the forum's thoughts on pitching straight on the yeast cake because I know many people mention they do it on the show but then people like Jamil really preach against it. So I wanted to see the forum's consensus on it. This will be the first 2 beers that I am able to use my new fridge and a controller to be able to control fermentation temps precisely.



If I still am not comfortable with washing the yeast and pitching straight on the yeast cake is too risky, I just purchased a 2000ml flask for starters. Would that be large enough to step up from 1000 ml to 2000 ml and it be a large enough pitch for a 1.12 OG?

Also, any yeast I should consider using other than WL 001?

[spiderwrangler]

Rinsing is easy. Get a couple quart mason jars or something similar, boil it to kill things, cover in foil. Boil water to sterilize, let it cool. Pour slurry into mason jar, foil and put it in the fridge, let it settle. Decant off spent beer, pour in cooled sterile water, cap and shake. Put it on the counter and let it start to settle. The heavy (protein and hop) stuff will drop first, once it does, pour the clean layer of yeast into your other sterile jar. Done. Pitch as is, or fridge til needed (not too long) or juts to settle and decant off water.

[Bugeater]

A good barleywine can be made from extract. That said, you need to be concerned about the fermentability of the extract. With all grain you can always lower the mash temp to make the sugars more fermentable, with extract you don't have that option. Some extracts are more fermentable than others. John Bull (a commonly found brand) has a relatively high amount of unfermentable sugars while United Canadian has a significantly lower amount. I haven't checked on the other brands in years so I can't comment on those. In any case you should consider using some sugar as part of the fermentables so you can get your final gravity down to an acceptable range. Some brands such as John Bull and especially Laaglanders are formulated with the expectation that they will be used in conjunction with sugar. This high amount of unfermentable sugars is intentional so your gravity doesn't drop too low. These are very good extracts if used right.

Wayne

[theobrew]

Thanks bug!

Yea I was planning on adding some sugar. I think jamil uses 12 oz? In his recipe. Should I use more because of the extract?

Also I plan on partial mashing at least 3-5 pounds of base plus all the specialty. Should I go for 150 degrees or lower?

[Ozwald]

Thanks bug!

Yea I was planning on adding some sugar. I think jamil uses 12 oz? In his recipe. Should I use more because of the extract?

Also I plan on partial mashing at least 3-5 pounds of base plus all the specialty. Should I go for 150 degrees or lower?

Just be careful on how much you add. My barleywine's always come out delicious, but a touch thin for my liking. It's a careful balance of potential alcohol vs unfermentables.

Personally, I wouldn't up your sugar at all. Not saying you're right on the money, but you're in the right neighborhood. I would see how the first batch turns out & tweak it from there. As for the partial mash, I would guess 145-150 would be a good start. I would probably try 148-156-170 to start with. It really depends on the unfermentables in the extract and the amount/type of specialty grains though.