Why does sediment float off yeast cake so eazy in my wheat?

[brewjedi]

You guys rock! I've been repitching harvested slurry. This Batch was 3rd gen. Mostly use thick slurry from bottom end. Will top croping cure this consern? I use hop bags and whirlfloc on my boil. I allow only a small amount of kettle trub in the fermentor. This batch was lautered through a copper manifold. I did add .25 grams DAP and 2 tsp dry yeast at flame out. I can't imagine the dead yeast not being consumed by the living.

So now I'm doing 30 min protien rest at 122 deg and also kegging first then counter pressure bottle filling. Would I benefit from employing a little gelatin? If so when? I believe I heard about 4 days before packaging.

I am also considering building a centrifuge that will literally spin whole fermentors or kegs on there sides. I know that sounds crazy but I have a small shop.tooling and time. What do you think??

[Ozwald]

You guys rock! I've been repitching harvested slurry. This Batch was 3rd gen. Mostly use thick slurry from bottom end. Will top croping cure this consern? I use hop bags and whirlfloc on my boil. I allow only a small amount of kettle trub in the fermentor. This batch was lautered through a copper manifold. I did add .25 grams DAP and 2 tsp dry yeast at flame out. I can't imagine the dead yeast not being consumed by the living.

So now I'm doing 30 min protien rest at 122 deg and also kegging first then counter pressure bottle filling. Would I benefit from employing a little gelatin? If so when? I believe I heard about 4 days before packaging.

I am also considering building a centrifuge that will literally spin whole fermentors or kegs on there sides. I know that sounds crazy but I have a small shop.tooling and time. What do you think??

I think Spider rocks & I'm just riding his coattails. I highly suspect it's yeast sediment after re-reading your original post very carefully. After the above details were revealed, this stood out:

If I pour it really careful I get clear beer but any jolt at all and I get sediment in suspension.

If you were getting protein haze, I wouldn't guess you would get clear beer regardless of how carefully you poured. Perhaps slightly clearer, but that's not what I'm getting out of that statement. With my experiments with 001 on a 3rd generation, my guess would be that you got a bit of the 'heads' when you rinsed. Rinse twice. Or three times. Get rid of the trub, but still favor that bottom portion. I don't think a protein rest is going to help. I also wouldn't expect to see any noticeable improvement by adding the dry yeast to the boil. Gelatin would certainly help, I'm sure Spider will pipe in with his method but you could do a couple quick searches & get the same info - he's posted it several times. As for the centrifuge, you're on your own. Just make sure you write the note first & leave it where a loved one will find it. There's a good reason why centrifuges are so expensive. In my opinion, even trying to build one is going to be nothing but a waste of money & at the size you're suggesting, it's not going to be just a couple bucks. You can try, but I would highly recommend against it.

[spiderwrangler]

If you are kegging, you should be able to use some sort of fining (gelatin would work fine) to settle things and be able to transfer clear, relatively yeast free beer into your bottles. Or serve them 'mit hefe', and don't worry about the yeast When you say you are harvesting slurry, are you doing a secondary, or fermenting only in primary? The more flocculant yeast will settle in primary (and will be what forms the krausen, so yes top cropping will give you harder floccers), and the less flocculant will get transferred to secondary. If you are pulling your repitching yeast from the secondary, then over generations, you are selecting for the less flocculant yeast in each generation.

PS: I you too Ozwald.

[Ozwald]

If you are kegging, you should be able to use some sort of fining (gelatin would work fine) to settle things and be able to transfer clear, relatively yeast free beer into your bottles. Or serve them 'mit hefe', and don't worry about the yeast When you say you are harvesting slurry, are you doing a secondary, or fermenting only in primary? The more flocculant yeast will settle in primary (and will be what forms the krausen, so yes top cropping will give you harder floccers), and the less flocculant will get transferred to secondary. If you are pulling your repitching yeast from the secondary, then over generations, you are selecting for the less flocculant yeast in each generation.

PS: I you too Ozwald.

Great point you hairy beast. NEVER harvest from secondary. Also, I thought those were coattails. WTF are you doing to your ? Wait...

wait....

Please don't answer that.

Anyone got some PBW that works on imagined images?

[brewjedi]

Thanks for all the input.
I just figured It had to be wheat and/or honey specific since all the other batches have solid yeast cakes on the bottom. I do the secondary specifically to harvest from primary. I'm leaning toward a rinsing issue. Honestly my yeast cake has been so clean and uniform that during the rinsing process I have been having a hard time determining the place to harvest from. I don't get a dark line forming like I used to. It all looks the same since I started using hop bags. I let it settle any where from 10 to 25 minutes and the very bottom will have some darker matter the top will be visually less floculant. Think I'll try as suggested:

with 001 especially, it's extremely beneficial to throw out just a little extra from the top portion.

Any videos or good photos on rinsing would help. I've seen some but everything look less uniform then what I'm getting from my fermentors. What about the top cropping method? Would it be better to top crop really clean yeast from the top and step it up on my stir plate?

[Ozwald]

Thanks for all the input.
I just figured It had to be wheat and/or honey specific since all the other batches have solid yeast cakes on the bottom. I do the secondary specifically to harvest from primary. I'm leaning toward a rinsing issue. Honestly my yeast cake has been so clean and uniform that during the rinsing process I have been having a hard time determining the place to harvest from. I don't get a dark line forming like I used to. It all looks the same since I started using hop bags. I let it settle any where from 10 to 25 minutes and the very bottom will have some darker matter the top will be visually less floculant. Think I'll try as suggested:

with 001 especially, it's extremely beneficial to throw out just a little extra from the top portion.

Any videos or good photos on rinsing would help. I've seen some but everything look less uniform then what I'm getting from my fermentors. What about the top cropping method? Would it be better to top crop really clean yeast from the top and step it up on my stir plate?

Top cropping works, just another technique. I've done it exactly once, to see how it was done. Other than that I was more interested in the other aspects of the yeast, so I just ... didn't. Nothing against it though.

The yeast cake should be uniform in color. Any dark lines, as you noted, are from not-yeast. No longer getting a dark line means you're having good fermentations, properly getting rid of the trub & harvesting correctly. Try this, start using mason jars. They have more of a 'soup can' shape (as opposed to a tuna can). If you start using the same smaller vessels every time, you'll start to get a feel for what you need to rinse out. The jars aren't neccessary, but I find them easy to work with, clean, sanitize & measure my samples. Start by being extra paranoid & get rid of too much of the 'heads'. Collect a smaller sample. Most of the samples I collect need 2-3 step-ups before pitching. Occasionally more.

Sorry about the post, I'm still trying to wake up after that quadruple-shot of Nyquil last night.

[snowcapt]

Top cropping is the shit!
Clean yeast with minimal work. I either scoop from the bucket or do the "vacuum" method.

[brewjedi]

The yeast cake should be uniform in color. Any dark lines, as you noted, are from not-yeast. No longer getting a dark line means you're having good fermentations, properly getting rid of the trub & harvesting correctly.

Thats what I like to hear . Thank you all for holding my hand. I'll just decant a little more off the top and go from there. Thanks again....