My 1554 recipe X-File

Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:12 pm

This file is currently un-solved, and has to do with the awesome 1554 from New Belgium.

Recipe research:

I know there was one in Zymurgy, but it didn't look right, especially after doing some research. I know speyder has been working on this - any luck yet?

I get the feeling this is much more complicated than the one posted in Zymurgy.

So far, I have something like this - (from NBB site)
"Other than being dark in color, 1554 has little in common with Porters or Stouts. The beer is fermented at relatively high temperatures using a European lager yeast that imparts a refreshing, zesty acidity. Chocolate and coffee tones in the nose give way to a surprisingly clean finish."

...and something like this:

Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 27.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 21.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 51.3 %
2.00 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 20.5 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 10.3 %
1.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 10.3 %
0.50 lb Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 5.1 %
0.25 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 2.6 %
0.50 oz Northern Brewer [8.50%] (60 min) Hops 15.6 IBU
0.50 oz Saaz [4.00%] (30 min) Hops 5.6 IBU
0.25 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Abbey Ale (White Labs #WLP530) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single InfusionTotal Grain Weight: 9.75 lb
(the above was taken from another brew board)

...with differing yeasts -

I get the feling the yeast is either the Abbey ale, the Southern German Lager, or another Belgium lager yeast not specified (like from the Paddle recipe??) I definitely think the yeast selection is absolutely critical.

ALSO - is there a chance of a sour mash happening somewhere??

AND - I am hearing something about grains of paradise at the end, with no flavor or aroma hop additions.

I am waiting for a response from the brewery as of yet.

I have access to other recipies but haven't heard about their accuracy. Maybe agents Zainashef and Scott can work on this and finally get to the truth.

The truth is out there.

Thanks! - Wood
Please let me know if my response has offended you in some way.
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wood
 
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Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:32 am

I posted the one from Zymurgy on my website and a guy brewed and then did a taste test. He also sent me a couple bottles to try. First of all it is a fantastic beer but it is off a little from the 1554. I have not done a side by side but he did. Here is my blog post of what he had to say.

http://www.brewbums.com/bums/scripts/blog.asp

After tasting it I would say to use a lager yeast as NB recommends and you would get much closer. I will learn more when I do a side by side taste in the next week or so. This should give you some good info though.

Here is the recipe that he used

http://www.brewbums.com/bums/scripts/pr ... roduct=864

I would definitly not use a belgian yeast, especially since they said they use a European Lager strain.
Nate
http://www.nebraskabeerblog.com
Beers on tap-Schwarzbier, RyeIPA
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BrewBum
 
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Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:39 am

I still haven't had success at this one. The e-mail I got from the Brewery says:

"We use our lager yeast in 1554, the same one that we use for Blue Paddle. The main difference is in a 1554 ferment the temperature is significantly warmer. This reduces the sulphur compound formation and increases the aroma ester production slightly to give it a Belgian-y flavor without the overpowering ester character that our Abbey ale yeast produces.
The real secret to 1554 is this: we don't use any kind of flavor or aroma hop in 1554, only bittering hops. We do add a spice at the end of boil, however."

I figure the spice has to be Grains of Paradise. I don't taste or smell coriander in this beer, and I am also assuming it is not an obscure and unknown spice. Also, note that no flavor or aroma hops are added, so I'd move the 30min addition you have to 60min.

I also don't get "roasted" flavors from this beer. More malty than anything else. I'd ditch the roasted barley, and even the chocolate in the original recipe and go with a Carafa or Debittered Black instead.

The first attempt I made was the best so far, with the simplest grain bill:

Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
81.1 10.38 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) Belgium 1.037 3
8.1 1.04 lbs. Aromatic Malt Belgium 1.036 25
5.4 0.69 lbs. Crystal 60L America 1.034 60
5.4 0.69 lbs. Debittered Black Malt Belgium 1.030 575

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.20 oz. Czech Saaz Pellet 3.90 16.4 60 min.
0.30 oz. Czech Saaz Pellet 3.00 3.2 60 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.12 Oz Grains of Paradise Spice 1 Days(boil)


Yeast
-----

WYeast 2247 Danish Lager II - optimal temp 65f

Keep us posted on what you decide and how it turns out.

Rob
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Speyedr
 
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Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:40 pm

Interesting Rob, thanks, the recipe I have doesn't have flavor or aroma additions either, the GOP is a good idea. It looks like you ferment at around 65 with the lager yeast, is that right?

I think a good reason for the chocolate, at least a little is to get a closer color match, as the recipe I have that was one of it's main flaws, it was not red enough.

Interesting, it looks like with these recipes we are zeroing in though.

I'll just post mine.

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: 1554 Clone
Brewer: Nate Bell
Asst Brewer:
Style: Belgian Specialty Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 5.85 gal
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 26.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 38.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
8 lbs Pale Ale Malt 2-Row (Briess) (3.5 SRM) Grain 83.1 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5.2 %
8.0 oz Caramunich III (Weyermann) (71.0 SRM) Grain 5.2 %
4.0 oz Carafa I (337.0 SRM) Grain 2.6 %
4.0 oz Chocolate (Dingemans) (340.0 SRM) Grain 2.6 %
2.1 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 1.3 %
1.50 oz Williamette [5.50%] (60 min) Hops 29.8 IBU
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (60 min) Hops 9.0 IBU
1 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Light Body Batch Sparge - Nate
Total Grain Weight: 9.63 lb
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 12.04 qt of water at 168.3 F 152.0 F 60 min


Notes:
------
The true ingredients were listed as this. 80L Caramel Munich and 55L Crystal and just German Carafa Malt. I chose the closest subs. The Caramel Munich may just be Munich.

It doesn't fit a style category, they call it a black ale. Similar to a Schwarzbier but not lagered.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nate
http://www.nebraskabeerblog.com
Beers on tap-Schwarzbier, RyeIPA
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BrewBum
 
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Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:57 pm

interesting - I just got my response from the brewery - here it is: (from Matt G. - very cool person)

Hello Andy,

I am glad to hear you like 1554 so much. I'm not going to give you style guidelines because I think they're a bunch of hooey.

Malt: The basic idea is to brew a big beer, relatively high gravity with a lot of unfermentable content to keep the body high and the alcohol moderate. Some 2-row, but a lot of Munich, Caramel, and Carapils malts. Use chocolate and black malt extremely sparingly, a little bit goes a long way for color. If there were a black malt that had no bittering effect, that would probably be the one to use.

Hops: Bitterness is moderate to high, enough to offset all that extra sweetness. Water is kept soft to keep the bitterness quite mellow. There is no aroma hop in 1554. If anything, you could put in some kind of spice at flavor threshold.

Yeast: Lager yeast, ale temperatures. Particular strain doesn't matter, as long as it is a low sulfur producer.

Finishing wise, this beer is straightforward.

Hope this helps, good luck and happy brewing.

----I love these guys.

I am still new to recipe formulation, and just want to get close. What do you guys think after this info??

thanks - I am still working out my all-grain procedures/system, so this is all research at this point. I really want to perfect my process at this point, so when I try this brew it works pretty well/

PS - black malt with no bittering?? is this the jamil chocolate no husk malt, or could it be some kind of dark belgium sugar for color addition??


Let me know -
Andy
Please let me know if my response has offended you in some way.
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wood
 
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Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:38 am

That is good stuff, thanks. Looks like if I add Munich and reduce the 2-row and use a lager yeast I will be really close. Cool!
Nate
http://www.nebraskabeerblog.com
Beers on tap-Schwarzbier, RyeIPA
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BrewBum
 
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Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:10 am

wood wrote:interesting - I just got my response from the brewery - here it is: (from Matt G. - very cool person)

Hello Andy,

I am glad to hear you like 1554 so much. I'm not going to give you style guidelines because I think they're a bunch of hooey.

Malt: The basic idea is to brew a big beer, relatively high gravity with a lot of unfermentable content to keep the body high and the alcohol moderate. Some 2-row, but a lot of Munich, Caramel, and Carapils malts. Use chocolate and black malt extremely sparingly, a little bit goes a long way for color. If there were a black malt that had no bittering effect, that would probably be the one to use.

Hops: Bitterness is moderate to high, enough to offset all that extra sweetness. Water is kept soft to keep the bitterness quite mellow. There is no aroma hop in 1554. If anything, you could put in some kind of spice at flavor threshold.

Yeast: Lager yeast, ale temperatures. Particular strain doesn't matter, as long as it is a low sulfur producer.

Finishing wise, this beer is straightforward.

Hope this helps, good luck and happy brewing.

-

PS - black malt with no bittering?? is this the jamil chocolate no husk malt, or could it be some kind of dark belgium sugar for color addition??



This is Matty Smooth.. same guy who responded to me way back when. You can tell how smooth he is too.

He says: If there were a black malt that had no bittering effect, that would probably be the one to use.
The description of Dingman's Debittered Black from the Northern Brewer Site is, "Dingemans Debittered Black Malt. 525-600° L. A unique malt for adding deep black malt color with little bitterness. A little goes a long way. Now you can create dark beers without the bitter, dark chocolate, coffee flavors of other highly kilned malts."
I think Carafa is also a "debittered" malt, because they are both huskless. Chocolate is not. The Debittered is darker than the darkest Carafa though, and my first attempt had the red hues we are looking for.

Matt also said: If anything, you could put in some kind of spice at flavor threshold.
Again, seems Grains of Paradise would be the way to go for the Peppery, Spicy notes this beer has.

Finally, about the yeast he says: Lager yeast, ale temperatures. Particular strain doesn't matter, as long as it is a low sulfur producer.
From the Wyeast Website:
2124 Bohemian Lager Yeast. AKA 34/70
Probable origin: Weihenstephan, Germany
Beer Styles: Pilsners, Hellas, Dunkel
Commercial examples may include: Ayinger, Sam Adams, Stroh, Sudwerk
Unique properties: A Carlsberg type yeast and most widely used lager strain in the world. Produces a distinct malty profile with some ester character with a crisp finish. Well balanced profile produces a wide range of lager beers. Will ferment in the mid 40's to mid 50's for various beer styles. Benefits from diacetyl rest at 58 F (14 C) for 24 hours after fermentation is complete. Also used for pseudo ale production with fermentations at 75º F, (24º C) which eliminates sulfur production. Flocculation - medium; apparent attenuation 69-73%. (48-58° F, 9-14° C)

Looks like I'm going to have bump something off my schedule 'cause I'm just ITCHING to brew this now! :)
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Speyedr
 
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Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:25 am

Just an observation on this thread. This discussion has probably been the finest example of collaborative development of a recipe I have ever seen. Sharing results of individual experience and outside research with constructive suggestions on each others recipes. This is the type of thing that makes brewing so much fun. This is also a great demonstration for newer brewers of what goes on in the development of a recipe.

Congratulations on the great job guys. The only reason I don't put this beer on my list of brews to do is the fact I don't particularly like this beer. :D If it weren't for that, I would be excited about it.

Wayne
Bugeater Brewing Company
Bugeater Brewing Company
http://www.lincolnlagers.com
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