ideal equipment upgrade for 20 gal system

[Todd]

Greetings folks -

Looking to increase production size from 10 gallons to 20, I have a lot of thirsty friends who've built kegerators and love serving my beer.

Currently I brew 10 gallon batches on a 3 tier gravity system. I have an 18 gallon HLT, 70 qt Coleman Xtreme mash tun (I batch sparge) and a converted keg for a boil kettle. Pics available in this thread if interested: http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21453

To go to 20 gal I'll need to be able to boil at least 28 gal, so I'm looking at a large aluminum pot like this: http://www.waresdirect.com/products/Restaurant-Supply/Update-International-/Stock-Pot167548. For the price ($112), size (40 gal), and thickness (6mm) I figure I can't go wrong on the extra capacity. Anyone use one of these, or have a recommendation on another size?

My mash tun is only 17 gal, which will top out at around 50# at a 1:1 ratio, so I'll need to upgrade that to a larger cooler or go with another pot and a false bottom since I can direct fire that tier as well.

I think I can use my 18 gal HLT since I can top it off between mash in and sparge. I have a few 15 gal fermenters and can run 2 fridges with 2 Johnson thermowell controllers so the ferment side is ok.

I'll also need to invest in a Therminator plate chiller and a March pump for sure, my immersion chiller won't cut it...

Am I missing any crucial upgrade pieces/parts?

[foomench]

New liver?

[pfooti]

Disclaimer: my new kit is really new; I've only brewed on it twice. So my own mileage may vary, let alone yours.

I have a set of 30 gal boilermakers, and I can say that while I could *probably* do a 20 gal batch in them, it'd be a bit tight. The boil kettle in particular would be really, really full. Right now, I shoot for about 18 gallons, post-boil, so I can have three fermentors filled to 6 gallons apiece. Mark off a half gallon or so in losses to trub, yeast, dryhop, etc, and things go well. A four-bucket batch would mean having about 24 post-boil gallons, which is 27 or so preboil gallons (depending on boil length), which means I'm back to using fermcap-s in the boil to keep the thing from boiling over.

The MLT and HLT are probably fine at 30 gallons, I could probably get away with a bit smaller but they'd be less pretty.

Then again, if you're just shooting straight for 20 gallons (say you're getting a 22gal conical fermentor), it should be doable. Tight in a 30 gallon pot, and probably really really difficult in a 28 gallon one. Those update international pots are a bit wider than the blichmann ones, so the boiloff will probably be closer to 13% or so.

On balance, I like to think about brewing in mutiples of buckets. The typical brewing buckets (I use NB ones) can hold 6 gallons of wort easily, and I use a half-dose of fermcap-s at knockout to keep them from blowing off. They're also possible to move, unlike the larger fermentors.

Moving to a plate chiller means you might want to invest in a hopback. I like it as it filters out whatever trub gets out of the kettle. Tasty mentioned using his with rice hulls even when there wasn't a need to actually do a hopstand, which is what I intend to do the next time I brew something that doesn't want a hopback.

I use a direct fire mash tun, just recirculating with the march pump during the mash. I lose about six degrees or so during an hour-long mash, so I do put a little heat on. Eventually, I'd like to use my HLT as a heat exchanger to have a slightly easier time holding mash temps, but that's a longer-term goal. Still; using a kettle MLT means I can do step mashes and stuff, a lot easier than infusion in my opinion.

Also consider a grain grinder if you don't have one yet. Depending on what you brew and where you buy stuff, you can get a relatively significant discount by buying your base malt by the sack.

[Todd]

So you are basically validating my thoughts on getting a boil pot that is much bigger than I thought originally necessary - ie. 40 gal to do a 28 gal boil vs. a 30 or even 35 gal size. Thanks for some real world perspective on that.

I have a grain mill, thankfully, and have been buying in bulk.

I guess I have to decide on what my MLT is going to be, either a bigger version of the cooler I have now or go with a direct fire pot with a false bottom. I'll have to think on that one... thanks