Refrigerator Conversion

[Cliff]

I've been looking into getting a dedicated fridge for fermenting.

I know I'll have to install a thermal controller I have some issues about this.

Issues:
Frost free. It's almost impossible to get one that isn't.
Is this even an issue? I've read that it is. Lots of hub-bub about Cyclomatic and all that.
Seems to me that one could just by pass the frost circuit.

The Controller:
Most folks I've read about are using the temp controller as a glorified on / off switch interrupting the power to the fridge. This strikes me as just plain wrong. If I have a freezer why would I not want to use it for storage of things like hops etc. Interrupting the Fridge power would interrupt the freezer too rendering it useless.

Has anyone run a Johnson or Ranco (etc.) controller through the Refrigerator's original thermal controller circuit or by passed same and preserved the Freezer as a freezer while obtaining control of the Fridge?

[Mylo]

I've been looking into getting a dedicated fridge for fermenting.

I know I'll have to install a thermal controller I have some issues about this.

Issues:
Frost free. It's almost impossible to get one that isn't.
Is this even an issue? I've read that it is. Lots of hub-bub about Cyclomatic and all that.
Seems to me that one could just by pass the frost circuit.

The Controller:
Most folks I've read about are using the temp controller as a glorified on / off switch interrupting the power to the fridge. This strikes me as just plain wrong. If I have a freezer why would I not want to use it for storage of things like hops etc. Interrupting the Fridge power would interrupt the freezer too rendering it useless.

Has anyone run a Johnson or Ranco (etc.) controller through the Refrigerator's original thermal controller circuit or by passed same and preserved the Freezer as a freezer while obtaining control of the Fridge?

A lot of fridges have only one temp control. Only the fancy, expensive ones have separate controls (and therefore fans or separate coils) for the other zone. If you have the right unit and knowledge - then go for it.

Non-frost free is only important for yeast storage. I store my hops in my bottle fridge, and I do my fermenting in a chest freezer, which IMHO is a better, more efficient application. Since it is "one zone" there is no inefficiency of loosing freezer space.


Mylo

[bcmaui]

I use the freezer space above my upright ferment refrigerator for specialy grain storage. It typically stays around the low 50's when the space below is held at 68. I keep a small thermometer in there from a restaurant supply store to monitor the freezer temp - it does get colder during active fermentation as the compressor is going on more frequently for the chamber below.

There is a separate non-frost free chest freezer I use for hop storage.

[Quin]

I've been looking into getting a dedicated fridge for fermenting.

I know I'll have to install a thermal controller I have some issues about this.

Issues:
Frost free. It's almost impossible to get one that isn't.
Is this even an issue? I've read that it is. Lots of hub-bub about Cyclomatic and all that.
Seems to me that one could just by pass the frost circuit.

The Controller:
Most folks I've read about are using the temp controller as a glorified on / off switch interrupting the power to the fridge. This strikes me as just plain wrong. If I have a freezer why would I not want to use it for storage of things like hops etc. Interrupting the Fridge power would interrupt the freezer too rendering it useless.

Has anyone run a Johnson or Ranco (etc.) controller through the Refrigerator's original thermal controller circuit or by passed same and preserved the Freezer as a freezer while obtaining control of the Fridge?

You want frost-free. If not, ice will build up to the point that the fan can't blow air across the coils. My defrost timer quit working, and that was what happened. A heater comes on for say 20 min every 24 hours to melt the ice that has accumulated on the coils. "Frost-free" also provides a mechanism for the melting water to drain out of the freezer section. BTW, this melting water is the source of moisture people complain about when using freezers as serving fridges. The only issue when using on a fermentation fridge is you loose cooling capability when the defrost timer is in heat mode.

A fan in the freezer section blows air into the refrigerator section to provide cooling. The standard refrigerator thermostat controls how cold the freezer is. I believe the temp setting on the refrigerator side is essentially a timer that controls how long the fan runs. You could wire the controller to turn the fan on/off to maintain the desired refrigerator temp.

[Cliff]

You want frost-free. If not, ice will build up [...] A heater comes on for say 20 min every 24 hours [...] The only issue when using on a fermentation fridge is you loose cooling capability when the defrost timer is in heat mode.

Yah. I get that.
This confused me somewhat:

“You need to have a cyclomatic refrigerator, not one that is self- defrosting,” says LeVeque. “The simple cyclomatic (compressor, condenser, evaporator) requires manual defrosting. A self-defrosting model will warm up every 6 to 8 hours and may rise to 55° F.” This is not too good if you’re lagering. The difference between refrigerator styles is easy to spot; cyclomatic refrigerators will have coils in the back. A self-defrost has coils under the refrigerator (and wires and tubes in the sides). Cyclomatic refrigerators also have flat floors suitable for fermenters. Used models, with a warranty, cost about $75; a new one is $300 or so.
(Source: http://www.byo.com/stories/projects-and ... 7-projects )

So the author ( in 2000) was articulating the down side of a self defrosting fridge as being one where you lose control over your ferment for some period.
The author was quoting a guy who runs an appliance store saying the duty cycle its about every 6 - 8 hours.
Maybe that's just one brand, maybe he was shooting from the hip, I can't say. You know how things are on the internet. Some guy who ought to know, but doesn't, says something he thinks is correct and suddenly everybody is repeating it.

I am learning what a few of the guys here have said: that most fridges haven't got a separate system for the freezer.
Which raises the chicken-&-egg question of whether it's the freezer coils that are cooling the Fridge or the other way round. If the Freezer is cooling the fridge and the cold freezer air is what's flowing in that valve might be the thing to interrupt.

[Cliff]

I learned that it is indeed possible to do as I hoped.

The Freezer's flapper valve that shunts cold to the fridge to do the job of cooling is the thing that must be controlled.
So it's a question of altering something about solenoid
Either build a little circuit that reduces voltages sufficiently to power the solenoid which is might (or not) be drawing A full 120 VAC. A multi meter on the power leads to the solenoid will answer that forthwith

Worst case is that the fan and valve require a lower voltage in DC, which can be supplied VIA any respectively sized Power Supply and old Computer PS units supplies provide a variety of very smooth DC power through the various leads which you can even combine to get higher power increments.

Then re route the power to the solenoid to a power supply which is controlled by the Johnson Controls unit. And Presto-Chango you will have the solution.

I gotta say it's a much more elegant solution than interrupting the power to the whole fridge and wiping out the freezer function.

However:
I own a couple of window Air conditioner units that I don't use since the HVAC install I did and it occurred to me that the more elegant solution is to build a cold room from ply, sandwiched around center ripped 2x4s and insulation. I even have 6 foot thermal pane glass that will make up some really slick doors. I can drive the cold room with an AC unit by by passing the thermal switch and using a Johnson Controls unit to regulate the temp.
Hell I can even create a multiple cold zone cold room with one for Lagering and one for Ales by installing a partition with a valved duct and a fan slaved to another temp; control. The down side Is I'll be warming the Cellar with the exhaust heat from the cold but, so what? I mean what do I care if the Cellar is a touch warmer?

And on the up side ( again) a cold room can be customized to accommodate pretty much whatever application I want. So If do decide to buy or build that conical fermenter I can make it large enough so that it'll fit. You won't get your conical 20 or 15 gallon fermenter in a fridge.

And I can put my wine in there too.
And I can store my other stuff in there

So I'll be buying some lumber and insulation instead of a fridge.

[bcmaui]

Bugeater turned me on to this cold room controller, the "Coolbot"

http://storeitcold.com/

[Cliff]

Bugeater turned me on to this cold room controller, the "Coolbot"

http://storeitcold.com/

$299.00 ~!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
That's optimistic.

I can get perfectly good Johnson analog controls for like 30.00 a pop~!!
Digital ones are only a little more.
And the hook up is about the same.