Starter wort Canning help

[seanhagerty]

I need some smart folks to talk to me a bit about canning start wort.

I have a pressure cooker. It only goes to 10PSI (not adjustable) How long do I need to cook starter wort at this pressure/temp to ensure it is properly sterilized for canning wort?

Sean

[DannyW]

I guess it depends on your goal.

Lots of people can wort in a water-bath at 212F. I think Zymurgy ran an article last year describing the process. The jars apparently seal and are shelf stable. Botulism spores require a higher temp to be killed, though, (hey, I read it on teh Intertubes so it must be true) so if there are any in there, you are not killing them all and have a nonzero risk of getting botulism.

10psi is 235F
15psi is 250F
I read 240F is the minimum required to kill the spores. They are gone in 4 minutes at 250F, I don't know how long 240F takes. Might take hours or days at 235F?

[Bugeater]

Sorry Sean, you are hosed. You need a minimum of 15 psi to safely can wort. Less than that will not kill botulism spores. The spores themselves are not the problem. When they grow, they produce toxins that cannot be killed or neutralized. Those toxins are what can kill you.

Those folks that just use a hot water bath are just playing russian roulette. Just as like some folks get away without using a starter for many batches, eventually they will get a batch of wort that won't ferment out right. The difference is that the one batch of canned starter wort that does contain the unkilled botulism spores can kill you. It is not worth the risk. I went through a series of weeklong workshops with the folks from Ball Corporation on canning processes many years ago as part of my job and botulism is one topic they wouldn't stop talking about.

Get yourself a different pressure cooker. A 10 psi pot is good for cooking beans or rice but cannot be safely used for canning.

Wayne

[seanhagerty]

Thanks Bro. I kinda figured this already, but wnated to hear it from some one else.

Sean

[cornhole]

Hold On...

Did you boil the wort? or just draw it off the mash tun or just mix it up from DME?

If it's boiled, lets say 60 minutes, where is the botulinum(sp?) coming from?

If the jars are boiled and the wort is boiled, in my mind things are good.

If botulinum isn't killed in the wort boil then what kills it after that? Fermentation?

Someone correct me.

-Cornhole

[Bugeater]

To kill botulism spores you need to heat it to a minimun of 240° F for at least 15 minutes. If you are not boiling under pressure, you can't get it over 212° and even that is at sea level. Any higher elevation and the temperature is even lower. This is why the standard setting for all modern pressure canners is 15 psi. This pressure will give you 250° F. There pressure cookers out there that will cook at 5 or 10 psi. These work great for cooking foods faster, but cannot be safely used for food preservation.

At normal boiling temperatures you can boil the wort all day and still not kill the botulism spores so the danger does not go away.

Wayne

[cornhole]

I don't doubt the facts cited, I still just don't understand.

So all our beer is contaminated with botulinum?

What happens that causes water bath sealed jars of wort to be contaminated and a bottled beer not?

I guess another way to ask this question is: If the ingredients are contaminated w/ bot. or the process introduces bot., what process kills the bot, so the finished beer in the bottle is safe? Or if once contaminated your screwed?

[Bugeater]

The spores won't reproduce due to the ph and alcohol level. Remember it is the toxins the spores produce when they reproduce that is toxic. Those toxins cannot be destroyed by any amount of boiling or pressure. You don't want those toxins to be produced while the wort is sitting in the jars. Remember, when you are making starter wort, you are producing a growth medium for culturing microorganisms. On the rare occasions that the botulism spores actually are present in that jar of starter wort, those spores find themselves in an anaerobic environment with almost perfect nutrients and no competing organisms. Since botulism is an anaerobic organism, this is the perfect place for them to grow.

Wayne