Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:32 am

Thirsty Boy wrote:But I have a question... with the peltiers, why build a "chamber" ?? wouldn't it be more efficient in terms of heating, to attach the peltier setup directly to the outside of a carboy? Then you just insulate the carboy.



This was my original plan from a few years back. But, after trying it out I was afraid of the peltiers cracking the glass. These things will form ice on the surface.

Well, my dry run is over and I've discovered that the converted computer power supply that my dad gave me is not sufficient. When he gave it to me he said that it wasn't stable enough for his use... but that it should be fine to run a few fans and the peltier. Well, now it like to shut off after only a few minutes. So looks like a new power supply is in store for me!
"I feel sorry for those who don't drink because when they get up in the morning that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
— Frank Sinatra
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Lars
 
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Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:34 am

Thirsty Boy wrote:There's some really cool shit going on here!!

But I have a question... with the peltiers, why build a "chamber" ?? wouldn't it be more efficient in terms of heating, to attach the peltier setup directly to the outside of a carboy? Then you just insulate the carboy.

That seems to be whats going on with the More Beer cooled conicals. I klnow that thre is a bit of heat transfer stuff going on, but that all has to happen inside a cabinet anyway, and you wouldn't be wasting energy cooling down a box and a bunch of airspace?

I have no idea wheather its a practical idea or not, its just a question that popped into my mind.

Thirsty


You have a couple good points there........in theory.

The problem is getting good surface contact between the flat surface of the peltier chip and the curved side of the fermenter. Morebeer does this by having aluminum heat transfer blocks machined on one side to fit the curved side of their conical. This allows the efficient transfer of heat from the conical to the peltier device. This machining is expensive to have done (hence the ridiculous prices of the Morebeer cooled concials) and beyond the capability of most homebrewers that like to build their own gear.

Wayne
Bugeater Brewing Company
Bugeater Brewing Company
http://www.lincolnlagers.com
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Bugeater
 
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Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:02 pm

In addition to Bug's rational, having the peltier directly
contact the carboy would limit the system to 1 carboy.
Right now, i'm trying to have 2 carboys filled, one in
primary ferm. and one post-primary but once in a while
Real Life(TM) gets in the way :) Eventually i'd like to get
into longer fermenting brews like russian imp. stouts,
ciders, and meads. having that extra cooling space will
be invaluable. sooner or later, i'll pick up a garbage bag's
worth of packing peanuts to help eat the dead air space
when there's 1 carboy.

As ahuntertx and bub suggested, having the cold side of
the radiator directly in contact with water did cross my
mind a few times.

For a few reasons, i decided against it.
first, by forking the MoFC design, it would allow me to
easily fall back to its original design in case mine didn't
work. there's still a possibilty that i may use some type
of hybrid to help reach pitching temps or maintain lager temps.

Also, IMO the location of the thermometer probe would
eventually cause temps to deviate from your desired
range. lets say you manage to insulate the probe to
monitor the wort/beer. the resevoir of water, which
would most likely be less than the volume of wort/beer,
would get colder than the wort/beer.
once the thermometer shuts off, the resevoir would
continue to drop the wort/beer's temp. The flip side is
pretty much reversed.

On top of that, there's dealing with keeping the water
sanitary. Bleach/Iodpohor loses its ooomph after a while.
Though Star San probably could be managable.

On a side note, using those cans of spray foam to create
a customized insulating shell for each carboy crossed my
mind a few days ago. but this is way to long already
mmadia
 
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Tue May 01, 2007 2:54 pm

long story short... brewed sunday night, screwed up and pitched at 79 degrees.
said screw it, tossed it in my chamber, and did the paper towel insualtor tape thing.
here's some times and temps. the ranco is set to either 65 or 66.
sun, 6:50p : 79
sun, 8:35p : 78
sun, 10:00p : 77
sun, 10:40p : 76
mon, 12:25a : 75
mon, 6:10a : 72
tues, 6:30a : 67
tues, 6:00p : 67

i didn't think of recording ambients
and the chamber disappoints me.
though i didn't kill any dead air space.

how fast do the ice-based chillers chill?
mmadia
 
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Tue May 01, 2007 3:39 pm

Considering the starting temperature of your wort, it looks like the chamber did quite good. 5 gallons of liquid is a huge thermal mass to try to cool with just cold air around the edges. It only took 12 hours to drop the temp. About the same time that the wort hit 72, the yeast should have already gone into high gear trying to raise the temperature, but you chamber was able to keep that in check. You would have been in the mid to upper 80's without the chamber. Instead, you were able to get the temp to drop.

I don't think there is anything to be disappointed about. You just need to remember to chill the wort to fermentation temperature first next time. Just part of the learning curve with a new piece of gear. I think you deserve a big congratulations on a successful first run! :jnj

Wayne
Bugeater Brewing Company
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Tue May 01, 2007 6:57 pm

Ok, here are the pix I've promised. It is not quite a pretty as mmadia's but it works!


Image

Image

Image

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Image

I ended up converting an old ATX power supply to provide the power for the peltier and the two fans. The first one I had was converted by someone else and didn't work well. It is running right now with the half full carboy in it. It was able to drop 11 degrees f within 2hrs (from 72 to 61). Not too bad! I'm thinking about bumping it up from 12 volts to 17 volts and see how low it can take it!

I built it to be able to hold either 1 6.5 carboy, my 10 gallon plastic fermenter or my 8 gallon plastic conical.
"I feel sorry for those who don't drink because when they get up in the morning that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
— Frank Sinatra
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Lars
 
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Thu May 03, 2007 8:23 pm

If you are unhappy with how fast it cools then use some ice jugs. You could try a gallon jug next to the fan. This should decrease the time it takes to get in the 60s. Once it's at fermentation temps then the peltier should be able to handle the load. What size peltier are you using?
ahuntertx
 
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Fri May 04, 2007 7:08 am

http://cgi.ebay.com/Coleman-ThermoElect ... dZViewItem

After failing the first Peltier assembly purchased on eBay, I have decided to use a more "commercial" solution, and have ordered one of the these cosmetically deficient Coleman units (also on eBay - link above). Not exactly sure how I am going to mount the thermal unit as of yet, but since this comes with all of the power cords, and a source for spare parts, this direction seems to make sense. With the current weather in NorCal, I need this unit to work as a heater. Specs and parts lists are available on the Coleman website. Hope to get an opportunity to fire-up the table saw this weekend, and get started.
-Otterbrew

On Tap at Home: Hella Hoppy Double IPA, Barley/Wheat Wine
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