Problems with new refrigerator

Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:24 pm

I recently purchased a new refrigerator to use to ferment my beer. Off of Ebay, I bought a single door Beverage Air commercial under-the-counter-type used refrigerator (judging from the scars on it, it previously worked hard in a bar of some sort). It is still a nice refrigerator and is mostly stainless steel, I just need to add a new thermastat.

There are two problems with it though:

1) Judging from the pot marks on it, someone has previously used a chlorine based cleaner on it. Probably one of those anti-bacterial spray cleaners. Some of the stainless steel has pot marks on it now, how should I clean it to get rid of them?

2) Another cleaning issue, after cleaning it inside and out it still smells of mold. I cleaned every where I could and I can not see any mold but the smell is still there. If I was keeping it below 41 deg F this would not be an issue as I am sure it would go away with time but mold can still grow at 60-65 deg F which will happen when I am making ales. Any suggestions?
Camel
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:25 pm

Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:25 am

I don't know about how concerned I'd be with the mold infecting fermenters, etc, if you'll be doing ales in the fridge. But, I do know a little about mold.

If you want to completely get rid of all traces of mold (good luck), it's a tremendous amount of work. And, by the way, if you can smell it - it's still there. Even if you can't see it (even if you can't smell it!), it might still be there. Mold is different that your standard viral or bacterial cleaning. Spore-generating molds can encapsulate their offspring in spores which can withstand all but the most severe conditions. Bleach, sanitizers, sometimes even acids, are not a problem for this robust little organism.

There are a few commercially available cleansers specifically for mold (like Spor-Klenz, for example). But these mold cleansers are VERY hard on your equipment. Weekly cleaning with this stuff will eat through 316L SS with no problem whatsoever. I work in a pharmaceutical facility and approximately every year or so we have to replace stainless steel wall coverings and equipment in critical areas because we clean regularly with sporicides.

That being said, it can be done. I'd start by disassembling everything you can dissassemble (interior and exterior panels, ducts, escutcheons, hinges, you should be able to see the windings on the compressor motor when your done and be able to tell what color every wire and connection is in the thing). And wipe/scrub every surface with some sort of sporicide (it's my understanding that these are only surface acting 0 i.e. if it the mold/spores doesn't physically come in contact with the rag with cleanser on it, you haven't done anything. Aerosols or spray-n-forget stuff won't cut it.). Be sure to get every ariflow surface you can find. Example, the fridge has a blower on it, clean the blower and any ducting to and from the fridge interior. Wipe/scrub, rinse with a leave-on sanitizer (like Star San). May want to repeat this at least once.

O.k. that was a good discussion on how to clean (may not have needed that I'm guessing). But my overall suggestion is that you really don't need to do all that. However, you DO need to be exceedingly dilligent in your cleaning and sealing of your fermenter before it goes into the fridge. If you're doing carboys (or any fermenter for that matter), consider using a large plastic bag that you've sanitized (or are reasonably confident is "clean") and bag the whole damn thing before putting it in the fridge. Leave some extra slack so the CO2 has somewhere to go (or periodically vent the bag, or rig up some sort of two-airlock-in-series kind of thing to give you some added confidence that any mold laden air won't make it back to the fermention). Just be sure you seal and double-seal (if you can) every possible source for the mold to make it's way into the fermentor. Remember, with a fridge like that you're constantly bathing the fermenter in a stream of mold-laden air (possibly something like 10^3 or 10^4 times more mold than ambient conditions - depending on how much mold you've actually got thriving in your giant petri dish).

Same story as always though. Clean your stuff really well, seal it really well. As long as you're controlling the tem at that point, I wouldn't worry too much about the mold in the fridge. Technically mold is damn near everywhere and we eat and breath the stuff damn near 24/7. It can certainly infect beer (I've had it happen to me and, other than the pretty colors and actually quite aesthetic floral arrangement it made, was a terrible incident), but don't stress over it too much.

Oh, and hang and air freshener in the fridge so you won't have to smell the mold so much.

On the SS pitting... stainless steel naturally passivates (hence the "stainless" part) in most conditions. The issue with using chlorine based cleaners... it's not the cleaners that cause the pitting - it's the process for cleaning that causes the pitting. For example, spray straight bleach on stainless, scrub, rinse REALLY well, dry - no problem, no pits. The problem is allowing the chlorine to sit on the stainless and allow the chlorine solution to react with and penetrate the oxide layer on the surface. Once that oxide layer is penetrated (and the subsurface material prevented from oxygen contact - ie reforming the oxide layer) it corrodes just like standard ferrous steel. The reason we see pits is that the oxide layer is penetrated in a small area and the galvanic couple says to itself "there's low resistance path to electron transfer over there, why should I do any thing anywhere else?" and beings to actively corrode only where the outside layer is penetrated and very locally. Over time, the pit grows, but it doesn't corrode uniformly across the surface like regular steel, except in very special conditions.

So what to do? Clean the hell out of it with a nice (non-chlorine, just in case - be nice to your stainless, it'll be nice to you) sanitizer. Get in and scrub the pits (like with a toothbrush or something that you know is getting into the pit and removing any surface debri). Rinse rinse rinse. Dry real well, allow to air dry with plenty of circulation, and you're done. Aesthetically it's not great, but it's not going to hurt anything or continue corroding appreciably. That's why it's an "under the bar" fridge and not a "replace the TV" fridge.

Anyway, probably WAY more than you wanted to know. Ask my wife, I can talk for hours about absolutely nothing. Hope it helps in some small way. And good luck.
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bassetbeer
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:02 pm
Location: Raleigh NC

Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:51 am

Wow, bassetbeer, thank you for all the information. As you implied, it was not purchased for aesthetics, but rather because I can fit 3 glass or plastic carboys inside of it at once while still being a small refrigerator.

I have glass carboys and will be putting an airlock filled with sanitizer on it outside the refrigerator (yes, I know glass carboys can break but that is another discussion). I am not really worried about the mold affecting the fermenting beer as it is in glass and would be trying to compete with tons of yeast from a starter. I just do not like the smell and prefer to keep everything in my house as free of dust and mold as possible due to my asthma.

I have cleaned it with both normal dish soap and a specific stainless steel cleaner with a white stainless steel grade scrub pad and rinsed it and dried it as you said “non-chlorine, just in case - be nice to your stainless, it'll be nice to you”. The cooling coils are inside the refrigerator with a fan to blow the air around inside. I could get fan cover off and I cleaned the fan but did not take off the cooling coil cover as it would require me using a right-angle screw driver with a 12” arm while laying on my side with most of my body inside the under the counter refrigerator and I did not think I would be able to put the screws back in if I took them out. I will probably go back and scrub the pits harder and let the refrigerator dry out and you suggested. Also, I may acid wash it to try and passivate the stainless again.

I was hesitant to use star-san as a spray sanitizer due to the fact that it does not work after the pH rises above 4.5 and in the sanitizer show the Five Star rep said it becomes yeast food in wort and I was worried it would probably become mold food in the refrigerator.

A quick question about mold though, can it grow in an oxygen depleted environment filled with CO2 and any other gas that fermenting beer gives off?
Camel
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:25 pm

Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:18 am

Short answer to your question: Yes.

Long answer: it depends. Mold surprisingly robust. Depending on the species, it can live, even thrive in the most bizzare conditions. They've even speciated a mold which, not only survived, but multiplied in a working autoclave. Granted, that's a very special little bug. The stuff you're most concerned with is your everyday, run-of-the-mill wild bread mold or similar organism. A good cleaning and good seals should prevent anything too significant.

But don't think that fermentation gases will kill off your mold.

However, for clearing the cooling coils... if you can see the coils, use some cleanser and a carboy brush and let airdry real well, and that should drastically cut back the little buggers if there's mold there (which there probably is as that's what the air is flowing over).

Anyway, hope this helps and good luck.
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bassetbeer
 
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:02 pm
Location: Raleigh NC

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