Re: Version 2.0 of Palmer's Residual Alkalinity Spreadsheets

Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:17 am

Last weekend I had the pleasure of judging with a brewer from, lets just call it, a large national chain of brewpubs, and had the opportunity to talk with two of his colleagues as well prior to the commencement of the competition. It went something like this (Q is me, A is them) and it's all paraphrased (note no quotation marks) as best I remember it.

Q: Do you guys check pH on every mash?
A: No. We'll check it occasionally but usually don't worry about it much.
Q: Are you doing anything to the water?
A: No. Just a GAC filter. [the local water does contain chloramine and is pretty nominal WRT other ions: alk. ~ 85, total hardness ~ 110, SO4 ~ 30, CL ~ 7, Na ~7 ]
Q: What kind of pH do you hit?
A: 5.3 - 5.4.
Q: With the water from around here? Do you use a lot of dark malt?
A: Not with our light beers.
Q: And you get 5.3 - 5.4? How can that be?
A: We throw in some acidulated malt.

One of the guys had worked at a Michigan branch and he said the water there was so hard and alkaline that he had his water trucked in. I asked if he couldn't decarbonate/soften and he indicataed that he had tried boiling but that was too troublesome and expensive so I asked about lime treatment. None of the 3 seemed to have heard of it. I said, in the awkward (for me, at least) silence that followed that homebrewers seem to worry much more about water than the pros do to which they all enthusiastically agreed.
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Re: Version 2.0 of Palmer's Residual Alkalinity Spreadsheets

Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:56 am

ajdelange wrote:I said, in the awkward (for me, at least) silence that followed that homebrewers seem to worry much more about water than the pros do to which they all enthusiastically agreed.


Yes, but unlike homebrewers, pro-brewers don't try to brew another style every time they brew. I agree that some of us home brewers try to be overly precise when it comes to hitting the targeted pH but that's because it is a hobby and some of us like to geek out about it. If I had to worry about running a brewing business I may worry less about pH.

Kai
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Re: Version 2.0 of Palmer's Residual Alkalinity Spreadsheets

Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:34 am

Yes, but unlike homebrewers, pro-brewers don't try to brew another style every time they brew. I agree that some of us home brewers try to be overly precise when it comes to hitting the targeted pH but that's because it is a hobby and some of us like to geek out about it.


Guilty as charged!

The outfit in question does more analysis than most craft brewers in that each brewer is required to send samples periodically to a central location where they are analyzed and the individual brewer graded accordingly as to how closely he hit the assigned target parameters for the beers. They can afford to do this as they have a large number of stores. I'd be willing to bet a fair amount of my best Pils that the really big guys (hint: owned by Belgian/Brazilian mega coporations) probably do measure pH on every mash or even have the mashing equipment instrumented inline.
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Re: Version 2.0 of Palmer's Residual Alkalinity Spreadsheets

Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:28 am

I placed a question on the excel chart under the ingredient forum. Should I move it here or keep it there?
Thanks
Tim
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Re: Version 2.0 of Palmer's Residual Alkalinity Spreadsheets

Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:15 am

Tim...I'd post it here or post a link to it here. This thread is pretty active...no harm in double-posting.
Timmy
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Re: Version 2.0 of Palmer's Residual Alkalinity Spreadsheets

Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:39 am

I don't know if this is the correct place for this. It is a water question but the "excel chart thread" is in the all grain section.. :roll: .
Any how, I have water for pale beers:
Source Water
Calcium (ppm)14
Magnesium (ppm) 4
Alkalinity as CaCO3 49
Sodium 8(ppm)
Chloride (ppm)1
Sulfate (ppm)8
Water pH 6.1
(Effective Hardness) 12
Residual Alkalinity as CaCO3 37
Est. SRM (Low)8
Est. SRM (High)13
Chloride to Sulfate Ratio Very bitter
Per the excel chart.
I am brewing JZ's Oatmeal Stout SRM 36 ish.
I CAN"T GET THERE FROM HERE!!! :evil:
It seams that no mater what I input to try to get the correct RA sets one or more of the resulting #'s are out of whack i.e. Na is +150ppm. or the Na to Cl ratio is bitter not malty (stout) Can any one help me, I am shooting for a RA of @325 with the others in line for this style. Thanks for any help, information or education you can provide.
Thanks
Tim
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Re: Version 2.0 of Palmer's Residual Alkalinity Spreadsheets

Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:09 pm

Beter yet, If I plug in a SRM of 38, I get a recomended RA of 341 to 400. I'm finding that I need to add a SH*% load of salts to get the "proper" 341 to 400 RA. Is this corect what RA should I target for a stout.
Tim
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Re: Version 2.0 of Palmer's Residual Alkalinity Spreadsheets

Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:55 am

Tim - does this help? This is a thread with my similar question and a great response from ajdelange.

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16969
Timmy
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