Best way to do a starter

[CurtE]

OK...
'went to Mr Malty and did the starter calc thing for a 10.5gal of 1.065 og wort (a Robust Porter). so...'got to do up a 5790ml starter with 2 packs. I only want to buy 1 pack (Wyeast is what the local dude sells).

What is the best way to go about doing this...stepping up to ~6 liters from 1 pack?

I have a 1000ml erlenmeyer and several ~2&3 liter glass growlers and some 5 & 6.5 gal carboys and buckets. I can borrow a small stir plate from work but only overnight or the weekend. I usually brew on a Sunday.

I think I know what to do generally...make a smaller starter and step it up to 6 liters. I want to know more of the details on how to step a single pack/vial up to pitching two 3 liter starters, each into two 5.25gal carboys for a 10.5 gal batch. How much 1.040 wort to start with...how long to let it go for...best way to cleanly transfer to another vessel...how big that step needs to be...etc...etc.

I dont want to have to do a 5 gal batch of mild or the like to start off with if I dont have to either. (To tell ya the truth I have done starters and not done starters and not really noticed a whole bunch of difference unless I pitched on a cake from a previous batch of the same thing.)

Can some one help me out? All viewpoints and comments are very welcome...

thanks in advance...
The BN is awesome!!!
Curt E.

[akap]

I think the best thing to do is start in a 1000ml erlenmeyer. Make your starter of the same gravity as you plan to brew, oxygenate or put on a stirplate, let that go overnight. Next day make another starter larger starter the next day. pour off the liquid in the 1000ml erlenmeyer and then pitch that into your larger starter and keep building from there.
Thats what I would do. I think Doc said he goes up 10X on each step but I could be wrong.
Maybe someone has a better way, hope I was somewhat helpful
Tony

[Bugeater]

The rule of thumb is to step up 10X the volume each time. Pitching one pack into 2 liters to start will work just fine. I have done that for the last 15 or so brews here with no problems whatsoever. From there you can go right to 5 or 6 liters with no problem.

I would recommend borrowing the stir plate on a Thursday night, run it all night long on a 2 liter starter and return it Friday morning. Let the starter sit all day on Friday. Then Friday afternoon, borrow the stirplate again for the weekend and run your 5 or 6 liter starter from Friday night until ready to pitch on sunday. By the way, you don't need to have a full 5 or 6 liters in the vessel at once. That is the total amount of starter your yeast has been fed. So if you do a 2 liter starter and then decant it and then add another 3 liters of starter wort, you have just done a 5 liter starter without a huge container.

Wayne
Bugeater Brewing Company

[macgruffus]

I'm planning to brew a 1.076 Midas Touch clone this weekend (Bugeater, send me a PM) and have one Wyeast 3787 (Trappist High Gravity)Activator pack. The production date is May 16, 2006 so it's not optimum but being of Scottish descent, I can't throw it away.

I ran the calc on Jamil's site and come up with needing a 2L starter. I've seen conflicting info on whether I should just pitch into one 2L starter 18-24 hours before my brew day or if I step up from a smaller starter.

Since my yeast is a little old I thought I'd start by pitching my yeast into a 1L starter and then, while it's still active, stir it all up and pitch the whole amount into another 1L wort to total the full 2L. Then, while in full fermentation, pitch into my 5 gal wort.

Do I really need to step up? Can I just pitch into a 2L wort and let it go from there? Should I let the starter ferment all the way out and decant off the liquid and just pitch the yeast cake?

Using my old procedure, I would have made a 1.076 2L wort and just pitched the smack pack after activation. Then I would let it go a day or so and use the whole thing (liquid and all) to pitch into my wort.

I'm sold on Jamil's starter and pitching rate but am still confused about the actual process.

Thanks.

David

[Bugeater]

I would go ahead and pitch that yeast into a 2 liter starter wort and then pitch the whole works into your beer. However make sure you look at the volume of yeast you pitch into your starter. Compare that to the amount of yeast volume that is in there once it has fermented out. You should see at least double the volume of yeast. If not, step it up again. Don't rely on bubbling or krausen, just the volume of solids at the bottom of the flask.. If you have a stir plate, allow 48 hours for your starter with the yeast this old. If no stir plate I would give it another day to ferment out. Be sure to shake it up really well if you don't have a stir plate. You need the O2 for cell growth.


Wayne
Bugeater Brewing Company

[macgruffus]

Be sure to shake it up really well if you don't have a stir plate. You need the O2 for cell growth.

Thanks Wayne. I have an O2 set up so plan on aerating the starter wort (plus stirring it up every now and then) as well as the full volume. I'll go ahead and start this early in the week and that will give me time to step up if needed for a brewing session this weekend.

David

[Harleybrews]

Slightly off topic for this thread but still relevant I think. I have always made my starters with a gravity no higher than 1.040. I also have heard/read that your starter gravity should be around the same gravity of the beer you plan to pitch into. Any explanations/opinions about the two schools of thought?

[Speyedr]

Slightly off topic for this thread but still relevant I think. I have always made my starters with a gravity no higher than 1.040. I also have heard/read that your starter gravity should be around the same gravity of the beer you plan to pitch into. Any explanations/opinions about the two schools of thought?

I'm with you on the ten-forty tip!

Other recent threads have discussed this and what I have gotten from all of this is that you want a starter to GROW yeast, not to ferment out if you can help it. The other camp feels that if you are pitching into big wort you should get the yeast "used to it" first. Makes sense at first glance, but if you think about it further you don't want your yeast to use up their oompf (technical term) before you need them to actually go to work. So, get 'em going in 1.040 and grow 'em up nice and big and strong and THEN pitch them into your big wort.

Just my '02

Rob