Wort clarity in mash tun?

[bufordsbest]

Hey Guys,

I currently mash in a rectangular picnic cooler and batch sparge. I notice that after a relatively short time the murky wort on top of the mash starts to become clear and less murky. if i stir it up it seems like everything below it is still a murky mess. I generally don't stir my mash other than at the beginning when doughing in and after about 5-10 min when i take a temperature reading. When I vorlauf the wort that runs off is generally pretty murky (as opposed to the clear wort that sits on top of the mash) and doesn't improve in clarity by the time i'm not getting any particles or grain in the runoff. (usually about 3L worth of wort) I've ran off a couple extra litres a few times to see if the clarity improves but it doesn't.

I'm wondering if there's a need to be stirring the mash repeatedly throughout the mash time? The few breweries I've been too all seem to have a mash rake system in their mash/lauter tun and I'm wondering if I'm missing something? Is a murky mash equate to an unconverted mash? I believe i read something in Gordon Strong's book about waiting until the wort on top is clear but i'd have to look that up again. the few times i've done an iodine test i had conversion fairly quickly. (although if i recall i generally take the sample from the top of the mash)

The reason I ask is i'm trying to trouble shoot some issues i've been having with my more malt forward beers. Occasionally, depending on the malt bill, I'm getting beers that come out rather hazy and cloudy (which i've never really cared about) but now i'm wondering if this is a carry over from the murky wort i'm running off earlier in the process. these beers have also tended to be rather muddled with no character. Most recently this occurred on a Fullers 1845 clone i attempted and it's not even close. the best description i could give is that the malt forward beers that haven't turned have kind of tasted like a clean flavorless ale. (even some porters)

In the past i've brewed mostly hop forward beers with no issue (even won some awards) but i think this muddled malt issue was over powered by bitterness so i didn't notice.

Any ideas? I generally mash a min of 60min and sometimes up to 90min and pay close attention to mash pH. i brew with tap water that's fairly low in mineral content but generally add a little gypsum or cacl depending on the style.

Thanks is advance for any help you can provide,

Tg

[speed]

are you using pilsner or wheat malt? other than that i got nothing

[bufordsbest]

no most beers have been english style porters, brown ales and esb's. most of the base malts have been muntons marris otter.

[herbaljoe]

Are you using whirlfloc or Irish Moss in the boil? What about post fermentation finings, like Biofine Clear? Do the beers taste better after they've aged for a while and become clear?

[brewinhard]

Do you keg or bottle your beers? Do you have the ability to cold-crash your beer for a few days before packaging to help drop out hop debris, yeast, and excess proteins?

[LeSinge]

are you vorlaufing the first gallon of each running?
waiting for the grainbed to set and the runnings to clear?
I assume so, but just in case...

I do the same and have similar troubles time-to-time, but have started to whirlpool and let my wort rest before racking into the boil kettle like a finished brew.

[bufordsbest]

thanks for the replies.

i do use whirfloc in the boil but haven't messed with fining's post fermentation. Haven't noticed a big difference after they've aged for a bit but to be honest i'm pretty finicky so if a beer doesn't turn out like i planned i usually dump it or give it to friends that don't no any better.

i do keg and i do notice that my first few pints are murkier than others, i also usually find a good amount of yeast slurry on the bottom of my keg when it kicks.

i do not usually cold crash but now that i think of it, a couple of the beers i have cold crashed came out very clear and were good beers. maybe that could be part of it.

and yes, i do vorflauf the first couple litres before running off.

tg

[Dirk McLargeHuge]

thanks for the replies.

i do use whirfloc in the boil but haven't messed with fining's post fermentation. Haven't noticed a big difference after they've aged for a bit but to be honest i'm pretty finicky so if a beer doesn't turn out like i planned i usually dump it or give it to friends that don't no any better.

i do keg and i do notice that my first few pints are murkier than others, i also usually find a good amount of yeast slurry on the bottom of my keg when it kicks.

i do not usually cold crash but now that i think of it, a couple of the beers i have cold crashed came out very clear and were good beers. maybe that could be part of it.

and yes, i do vorflauf the first couple litres before running off.

tg

I batch sparge too. My usual procedure is to pull off about a gallon of wort and pour it back into the cooler, but my runoff is not clear. When I brew with SGTSatan, who fly sparges, his runoff is crystal clear. I use Irish moss in the boil and gelatin a few days before kegging. My last APA is still cloudy, but my Christmas beers are pretty clear. My brown ale is clear. I don't know what I did with my APA, but everything else is clear.