No conversion?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:55 am

Just out of curiosity what would be the result if you went through the mash period but allowed to temp to go unmonitored and it climbed to lets say 170 before the mash was complete? I realize that at this point all the enzymes would denuture and you would have very low sugar content for fermentation. Yet is there something else? Like residual graininess due to all those unconverted starches. Anyone want to possibly elaborate on this? I'm just curious.
Steve
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Steve
 
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:26 pm

I'd expect a low attenuation and starch haze in the final product. But at 170 F, you should still have some alpha amylase activity. Especially if you cool it down quickly.

Kai
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Kaiser
 
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:07 pm

Wouldn't you also be extacting excessive tannins at 170 resulting is an astringincy?
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mmayer
 
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:21 pm

mmayer wrote:Wouldn't you also be extacting excessive tannins at 170 resulting is an astringincy?


Only if your ph is also above 5.8 or so at the same time. Even then, the extent of tannin extraction will depend on the length of time that both conditions exist at the same time.

Wayne
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Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:46 am

Kaiser wrote:I'd expect a low attenuation and starch haze in the final product. But at 170 F, you should still have some alpha amylase activity. Especially if you cool it down quickly.

Kai


This is pretty much what I thought as well. To make up for such an error I suppose some extract could be added to the brewpot and a clarifier, polyclar or gelatin would correct any resulting haze don't you think? Thanks for your input.
Steve
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Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:26 am

[quote="Steve This is pretty much what I thought as well. To make up for such an error I suppose some extract could be added to the brewpot and a clarifier, polyclar or gelatin would correct any resulting haze don't you think? Thanks for your input.[/quote]

Not speaking from experience here ;)

You could fix the problem by removing the starch with finigs or filtering and adding some more extract to compensate for the extract loss.

Or you could add amylases to your brew kettle, and hold it at "saccrification temp" to reach conversion in the brew kettle. These enzymes could come from enzyme preparations (like Beano) or from malt. The latter is more complicated since you would have to make another mash (mini-mash is fine) and lauter it.

In general, always perform an iodine test at the end of the mash to avoid headaches like this ;). If it doesn't convert and you think that you killed the enzymes, you can always add some more malt or Beano at that stage.

Kai
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Kaiser
 
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Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:26 pm

Kaiser wrote:[quote="Steve This is pretty much what I thought as well. To make up for such an error I suppose some extract could be added to the brewpot and a clarifier, polyclar or gelatin would correct any resulting haze don't you think? Thanks for your input.


Not speaking from experience here ;)

You could fix the problem by removing the starch with finigs or filtering and adding some more extract to compensate for the extract loss.

Or you could add amylases to your brew kettle, and hold it at "saccrification temp" to reach conversion in the brew kettle. These enzymes could come from enzyme preparations (like Beano) or from malt. The latter is more complicated since you would have to make another mash (mini-mash is fine) and lauter it.

In general, always perform an iodine test at the end of the mash to avoid headaches like this ;). If it doesn't convert and you think that you killed the enzymes, you can always add some more malt or Beano at that stage.

Kai[/quote]

Hey thanks Kai, I think that is a very good answer to my question! That's very HELPFUL. I never concidered the use of beano, interesting. I've heard other's calling for the use of beano but never really understood exactly for what. Could you add just a bit and elaborate on it's enzymatic contribution? I appreciate your help on this.
Steve
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Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:28 pm

Steve wrote: I've heard other's calling for the use of beano but never really understood exactly for what. Could you add just a bit and elaborate on it's enzymatic contribution? I appreciate your help on this.


Beano is an enzyme preparation that contains amylases to break down starches and dextrines. You can also get amylase enzymes from your home brew store, but beano might be cheaper.

Some brewers even use it in the fermenter to fix a high FG. I'm not a big fan of this at all, since there is no way to stop the enzymes from working. All dextrines will be converted to fermentable sugar and you will end up with a very thin beer that has little taste, but lots of alcohol. Making a lighter batch and blending the 2 souds like a better solution.

Using enzymes in the brewkettle is different. You can stop them by bringing the wort to a boil once the desired conversion has been achieved.

But I have to say, that I haven't used any additional enzymes yet and are only repeating what I have read about their use and their potential problems.

Kai
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