Mash PH and eff?

[ResQ]

How does the ph of your water/mash effect your overall effeciency?

[ajdelange]

The pH of the water itself is not that significant. What is very important is the pH of the mash itself which is influenced by the water's buffering capacity as expressed through its alkalinity. Thus water at pH 6.5 (not unusual for a well) with alkalinity of 120 (which we could make up by putting 200 mg/L NaHCO3 in a liter of deionized water and letting it come to equilibrium with CO2 at about 150 times the partial pressure in the atmosphere in simulation of the conditions produced by respiring subterranean bacteria) is much more problematical than water of pH 8.3 with alkalinity of 21 (which we could synthesize by adding 32 mg/L NaHCO3 to DI water). In the former case we would expect mash pH to be about 0.2 units higher than that produced by DI water and in the latter we would expect little pH shift relative to that of a DI water mash. Even in the second case we would expect mash pH to be about 5.7 - 5.75 which is too high. A much better range is 5.2 - 5.3 (measured at room temperature) and so most brewers will take some action to lower the pH. This is done by 1)adding acid in the form of acidulated malt 2)direct addition of organic or mineral acid from a bottle 3)addition of calcium to the mash which reacts with phosphate in the malt releasing acid in the process 4)addition of high kilned or roast malt which contain fair amounts of organic acid 5)reduction of the water's buffering capacity (alkalinity) or 6)combinations of 2 or more of 1-5. On this board there is huge emphasis on 3) but one can only practically go so far as huge amounts of calcium are required to effect an appreciable shift. For example to "neutralize" (the mash pH would be the same as that of a distilled water mash) the alkalinity of 120 mentioned above we woukd need to add 2.4 mEq/L calcium (168 mg/L) and that would only get us to pH 5.7. Another 168 mg/L would be required (these are approximate numbers at best) would be required to get to 5.5 which is about as high as you want to ge. Advanced and professional brewers therefore use various combinations of 1 -5 though it seems that 1 is becoming popular.

Proper mash pH insures that the enzymes which convert malt starch to fermentable sugar and protein to fragments of proper molecular weight are operating if not at their optimum then at least at a good compromise pH. This effects not only the conversion (starch to sugar) but other aspects of the process as well and makes for an all around better beer.

[larry78cj7]

The pH of the water itself is not that significant. What is very important is the pH of the mash itself which is influenced by the water's buffering capacity as expressed through its alkalinity. Thus water at pH 6.5 (not unusual for a well) with alkalinity of 120 (which we could make up by putting 200 mg/L NaHCO3 in a liter of deionized water and letting it come to equilibrium with CO2 at about 150 times the partial pressure in the atmosphere in simulation of the conditions produced by respiring subterranean bacteria) is much more problematical than water of pH 8.3 with alkalinity of 21 (which we could synthesize by adding 32 mg/L NaHCO3 to DI water). In the former case we would expect mash pH to be about 0.2 units higher than that produced by DI water and in the latter we would expect little pH shift relative to that of a DI water mash. Even in the second case we would expect mash pH to be about 5.7 - 5.75 which is too high. A much better range is 5.2 - 5.3 (measured at room temperature) and so most brewers will take some action to lower the pH. This is done by 1)adding acid in the form of acidulated malt 2)direct addition of organic or mineral acid from a bottle 3)addition of calcium to the mash which reacts with phosphate in the malt releasing acid in the process 4)addition of high kilned or roast malt which contain fair amounts of organic acid 5)reduction of the water's buffering capacity (alkalinity) or 6)combinations of 2 or more of 1-5. On this board there is huge emphasis on 3) but one can only practically go so far as huge amounts of calcium are required to effect an appreciable shift. For example to "neutralize" (the mash pH would be the same as that of a distilled water mash) the alkalinity of 120 mentioned above we woukd need to add 2.4 mEq/L calcium (168 mg/L) and that would only get us to pH 5.7. Another 168 mg/L would be required (these are approximate numbers at best) would be required to get to 5.5 which is about as high as you want to ge. Advanced and professional brewers therefore use various combinations of 1 -5 though it seems that 1 is becoming popular.

Proper mash pH insures that the enzymes which convert malt starch to fermentable sugar and protein to fragments of proper molecular weight are operating if not at their optimum then at least at a good compromise pH. This effects not only the conversion (starch to sugar) but other aspects of the process as well and makes for an all around better beer.

WOW! could you dumb that down for me. Does the pH matter that much on efficiency?

[ajdelange]

Depends on how you define "that much" and efficiency isn't the whole story. Brewers are hung up on pH for a variety of reasons. I attended a 3 day conference in Belgium a few years back entitled "The pH Paradox" with the paradox being that there are many pH dependent processes that take place in brewing each of which is "optimized" in a particular range of pH (and temperature) so that it is impossible to pick a single pH which is best for beta glucan degradation, proteolysis, amolysis, collodial stability and so on. I immagine that if you did experiments in which you held everything else constant and only varied the saccharification temperature pH you would find the extracts differing by only a few percent but that, as noted, is not the whole story. The bottom line is really that beers brewed with mash pH in the range 5.2 - 5.4 will be all-around better beers than ones brewed in the pH range 5.6 - 5.8.

[mediumsk]

The pH of the water itself is not that significant. What is very important is the pH of the mash itself which is influenced by the water's buffering capacity as expressed through its alkalinity. Thus water at pH 6.5 (not unusual for a well) with alkalinity of 120 (which we could make up by putting 200 mg/L NaHCO3 in a liter of deionized water and letting it come to equilibrium with CO2 at about 150 times the partial pressure in the atmosphere in simulation of the conditions produced by respiring subterranean bacteria) is much more problematical than water of pH 8.3 with alkalinity of 21 (which we could synthesize by adding 32 mg/L NaHCO3 to DI water). In the former case we would expect mash pH to be about 0.2 units higher than that produced by DI water and in the latter we would expect little pH shift relative to that of a DI water mash. Even in the second case we would expect mash pH to be about 5.7 - 5.75 which is too high. A much better range is 5.2 - 5.3 (measured at room temperature) and so most brewers will take some action to lower the pH. This is done by 1)adding acid in the form of acidulated malt 2)direct addition of organic or mineral acid from a bottle 3)addition of calcium to the mash which reacts with phosphate in the malt releasing acid in the process 4)addition of high kilned or roast malt which contain fair amounts of organic acid 5)reduction of the water's buffering capacity (alkalinity) or 6)combinations of 2 or more of 1-5. On this board there is huge emphasis on 3) but one can only practically go so far as huge amounts of calcium are required to effect an appreciable shift. For example to "neutralize" (the mash pH would be the same as that of a distilled water mash) the alkalinity of 120 mentioned above we woukd need to add 2.4 mEq/L calcium (168 mg/L) and that would only get us to pH 5.7. Another 168 mg/L would be required (these are approximate numbers at best) would be required to get to 5.5 which is about as high as you want to ge. Advanced and professional brewers therefore use various combinations of 1 -5 though it seems that 1 is becoming popular.

Proper mash pH insures that the enzymes which convert malt starch to fermentable sugar and protein to fragments of proper molecular weight are operating if not at their optimum then at least at a good compromise pH. This effects not only the conversion (starch to sugar) but other aspects of the process as well and makes for an all around better beer.

WOW! could you dumb that down for me. Does the pH matter that much on efficiency?

yes

[ResQ]

Depends on how you define "that much" and efficiency isn't the whole story. Brewers are hung up on pH for a variety of reasons. I attended a 3 day conference in Belgium a few years back entitled "The pH Paradox" with the paradox being that there are many pH dependent processes that take place in brewing each of which is "optimized" in a particular range of pH (and temperature) so that it is impossible to pick a single pH which is best for beta glucan degradation, proteolysis, amolysis, collodial stability and so on. I immagine that if you did experiments in which you held everything else constant and only varied the saccharification temperature pH you would find the extracts differing by only a few percent but that, as noted, is not the whole story. The bottom line is really that beers brewed with mash pH in the range 5.2 - 5.4 will be all-around better beers than ones brewed in the pH range 5.6 - 5.8.

thanks man. I know I still have more reading to do on this, but this awnsers the question!

[Hop]

Yes, mash pH matters. Unless I'm experimenting with salts, I swear by Buffer 5.2 by Five Star Chemicals. This stuff is magical--you can toss one in and rest assured that your mash pH is 5.2, which is ideal for most brewing.

[mediumsk]

Yes, mash pH matters. Unless I'm experimenting with salts, I swear by Buffer 5.2 by Five Star Chemicals. This stuff is magical--you can toss one in and rest assured that your mash pH is 5.2, which is ideal for most brewing.

kinda

Having some calcium in your wort is good for the yeast. Might want to look into that