American Wild Ale - where to start??

[Kazi the Younger]

I stand corrected - Lactic Acid, that's the one.

[foomench]

Well o.k. then. Oxygen isn't needed for lactic acid production like it is for acetobacter.

[brewinhard]

I will tell you though that I have tasted some interesting American Wild Ales that do have some acetic character to them. I definitely enjoyed that very much as it added to the overall complexity of the brew.

[Kazi the Younger]

From Vinnie's presentation on Yeast and bacterial production of acids as, related to oxygen:

"Lacto can ferment both in the presence or absence of oxygen but prefers reduced levels."

"Pedio ferments poorly in the presence of oxygen. Although Lacto plays a role, Pediococcus is responsible for the bulk of lactic acid production in Lambic and at Russian River."

"Brett is an oxidative yeast; the production of acids is an oxidative process."

"Oxygen promotes the growth of Acetobacter and retards the growth of Pediococcus & Lactobacillus. Higher levels of oxygen will cause acetic acid and ethyl acetate to be produced more quickly than lactic acids. To much acetic acid and you’ll have vinegar."

So it's safe to say over oxygenating will result in Vinegar. Other things I can conclude are:
Absence of Oxygen will allow for Lacto and Pedio to work, but not Brett or Acetobacter.
All Sour Ales have some quantity of Acetobacter in them, the trick is to not let that character become
to big - let the Lactic Acid character dominate, and brett character if desired.

Still doesn't confirm anything about plastic buckets being a good or bad vessel for making sours. By my taste they do a great job, but maybe I'm actually tasting more acetobacter then lactic acid? It's a pleasing taste nonetheless. I think if it was a really nasty vinegar taste it would be pretty obvious

[foomench]

Absence of Oxygen will allow for Lacto and Pedio to work, but not Brett or Acetobacter. ... [Acetic acid i]s a pleasing taste nonetheless. I think if it was a really nasty vinegar taste it would be pretty obvious

Brett will work with or without oxygen, but the amount of oxygen, among other things, will determine the character (more or less acid, more or less "horse blanket", etc.) of the fermentation. I think you got that, but I thought I would just clarify.

I too can enjoy some acetic character in a beer, although I have had one or two that had too much for my taste.